From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Tue Feb 1 08:58:16 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA71089; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:58:15 +1000 (EST) Received: from lint.cisco.com (lint.cisco.com [171.68.224.209]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA71079 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:58:12 +1000 (EST) Received: from pfs-laptop (bne-dhcp-15.cisco.com [144.254.153.34]) by lint.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id OAA13440; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:58:05 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000201085348.072c96a0@lint.cisco.com> X-Sender: philsmit@lint.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 08:56:29 +1000 To: "GT RAMIREZ, Medel G." From: Philip Smith Subject: RE: [apnic-talk] Request for input: ISP Clinic at APRICOT 2000 Cc: apnic-talk@whois.apnic.net In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Hi Medel, There is also a BGP BOF being held at APRICOT. This BOF is intended to be an informal discussion, with short presentations, on various BGP scenarios. I'm sure the type of situation you are describing here will be of interest to many people. Question is, are there volunteers from the community to come forward and share their solutions and experiences at the BOF...? Anyone? But sure, if the situation is more specialised, feel free to come and ask at the ISP Clinic. philip -- At 20:11 31/01/00 +0800, GT RAMIREZ, Medel G. wrote: >Hi, >How about - >1) Optimum Config on : Satellite DOWNLink and Fiber UPlink and how to apply > BGP on this type of set-up. >___________ > >-----Original Message----- >From: Miguel A.L. Paraz [mailto:map@iphil.net] >Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 4:29 PM >To: Philip Smith >Cc: apnic-talk@whois.apnic.net >Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] Request for input: ISP Clinic at APRICOT 2000 > > >Hello, > >On Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 05:02:11PM +1000, Philip Smith wrote: > > For the formal part, I would really appreciate feedback on what kind of > > topics you would like to see. > >I would like: >1. BGP and Multihoming, especially on fine-tuning things in the AP > environment if you're dual-homed to the US and to another Asian country, > how to optimize routing. >2. Bandwidth management, "guaranteeing" bandwidth. > >Thanks, >---m > >-- >Miguel "Migs" A.L. Paraz >http://www.iphil.net >Technology, Architecture, Training IPhil Communications Network, >Inc. >5/F 116 Herrera St., Legaspi Village, Makati City, Philippines >+63-2-750-2288 > > > >* APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * >* To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Tue Feb 1 09:08:29 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA72736; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 09:08:28 +1000 (EST) Received: from lint.cisco.com (lint.cisco.com [171.68.224.209]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA72727 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 09:08:26 +1000 (EST) Received: from pfs-laptop (bne-dhcp-15.cisco.com [144.254.153.34]) by lint.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id PAA21448; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:08:09 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000201085637.074c7330@lint.cisco.com> X-Sender: philsmit@lint.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 08:59:08 +1000 To: "Miguel A.L. Paraz" From: Philip Smith Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] Request for input: ISP Clinic at APRICOT 2000 Cc: apnic-talk@whois.apnic.net In-Reply-To: <20000131162901.H12667@tirad.internal.iphil.net> References: <4.2.2.20000131165155.00ba1a50@lint.cisco.com> <4.2.2.20000131165155.00ba1a50@lint.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Hi Miguel, For request 1. would this fit better into the BGP BOF which is being held at APRICOT? I certainly intend to have a short presentation/configuration discussion about such multihoming on the agenda. For point 2. I'll certainly add that to the ISP Clinic list. thanks! philip -- At 16:29 31/01/00 +0800, Miguel A.L. Paraz wrote: >Hello, > >On Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 05:02:11PM +1000, Philip Smith wrote: > > For the formal part, I would really appreciate feedback on what kind of > > topics you would like to see. > >I would like: >1. BGP and Multihoming, especially on fine-tuning things in the AP > environment if you're dual-homed to the US and to another Asian country, > how to optimize routing. >2. Bandwidth management, "guaranteeing" bandwidth. > >Thanks, >---m > >-- >Miguel "Migs" A.L. Paraz http://www.iphil.net >Technology, Architecture, Training IPhil Communications Network, Inc. >5/F 116 Herrera St., Legaspi Village, Makati City, >Philippines +63-2-750-2288 > > > * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Tue Feb 1 14:06:26 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA112044; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 14:06:26 +1000 (EST) Received: from tirad.internal.iphil.net (tirad.internal.iphil.net [203.176.9.125]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA112032 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 14:06:21 +1000 (EST) Received: (from map@localhost) by tirad.internal.iphil.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA22808; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 12:05:36 +0800 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 12:05:36 +0800 From: "Miguel A.L. Paraz" To: Philip Smith Cc: "GT RAMIREZ, Medel G." , apnic-talk@whois.apnic.net Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] Request for input: ISP Clinic at APRICOT 2000 Message-ID: <20000201120536.F22392@tirad.internal.iphil.net> References: <4.2.2.20000201085348.072c96a0@lint.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20000201085348.072c96a0@lint.cisco.com>; from pfs@cisco.com on Tue, Feb 01, 2000 at 08:56:29AM +1000 Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk well I could share a little but our setup is relatively simple at the moment... On Tue, Feb 01, 2000 at 08:56:29AM +1000, Philip Smith wrote: > There is also a BGP BOF being held at APRICOT. This BOF is intended to be > an informal discussion, with short presentations, on various BGP scenarios. > I'm sure the type of situation you are describing here will be of interest > to many people. > > Question is, are there volunteers from the community to come forward and > share their solutions and experiences at the BOF...? Anyone? ---m -- Miguel "Migs" A.L. Paraz http://www.iphil.net Technology, Architecture, Training IPhil Communications Network, Inc. 5/F 116 Herrera St., Legaspi Village, Makati City, Philippines +63-2-750-2288 * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Tue Feb 1 16:42:04 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA65770; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:42:03 +1000 (EST) Received: from lint.cisco.com (lint.cisco.com [171.68.224.209]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA65759; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:42:00 +1000 (EST) Received: from pfs-laptop (bne-dhcp-15.cisco.com [144.254.153.34]) by lint.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id WAA15592; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:41:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000201163301.00b7de20@lint.cisco.com> X-Sender: philsmit@lint.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 16:40:10 +1000 To: apnic-talk@whois.apnic.net From: Philip Smith Subject: [apnic-talk] Request for input: State of the Internet BOF at APRICOT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Hi, (apologies for duplicates and for non-operational content) One of the BOFs at the forthcoming APRICOT is concerned with the State of the Internet in the Asia Pacific region. I'm looking for volunteers who would be happy to give a 5 to 10 minute talk on what is happening in their country. This is a chance to tell the rest of the world what is happening where you live! If you are unable to attend, you are more than welcome to submit a short presentation to me and I can give it on your behalf. The talk could cover topics such as what's happening, new services, new ISPs, new technologies, customer connections, any political issues, etc. Remember, APRICOT is an operational technology conference, so I'd be really interested to hear from anyone who wants provide suitable content. Many thanks for your feedback! philip -- -------------------------------------------------------- Philip Smith vm: 6178202 ph: +61 7 3238 8202 Consulting Engineering, Office of the CTO, Cisco Systems -------------------------------------------------------- * See you at APRICOT 2000, Seoul, Korea February 28-March 2 http://www.apricot.net * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Fri Feb 4 18:49:29 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA125747; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:49:28 +1000 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA125705; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:49:24 +1000 (EST) Received: from guardian.apnic.net (guardian.apnic.net [203.37.255.100]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA125673; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:49:19 +1000 (EST) Received: (from mail@localhost) by guardian.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA19970; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:49:18 +1000 (EST) Received: from hadrian.staff.apnic.net(192.168.1.1) by int-gw.staff.apnic.net via smap (V2.1) id xma019968; Fri, 4 Feb 00 18:49:18 +1000 Received: from julubu.staff.apnic.net (julubu.staff.apnic.net [192.168.1.37]) by hadrian.staff.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28408; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:48:13 +1000 (EST) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:49:15 +1000 (EST) From: APNIC Secretariat X-Sender: bc@julubu.staff.apnic.net To: apnic-announce@lists.apnic.net, members@lists.apnic.net Subject: [apnic-talk] [apnic-announce] Reminder APRICOT2000 - APNIC SIGs Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: apnic-talk@apnic.net Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk [Note "reply-to:" field] * Reminder * * Reminder * * Reminder * * Reminder * * Reminder * At APRICOT 2000 in Korea APNIC is facilitating a number of "Special Interest Groups (SIGs) sessions as part of the APRICOT technical conference. While the sessions are largely focussed on issues relevant to APNIC members, members of the Internet community in the Asia Pacific are warmly encouraged to attend these sessions to contribute to the development of policy in this region. Information about the SIG sessions can be found at: Discussion papers have been prepared to accompany the Address Policy SIG and can be found at: Feedback and discussion are invited from members of the community. Comments should be sent to . We look forward to seeing you in Seoul. on behalf of APNIC Secretariat -- + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + APNIC Secretariat Tel: +61-7-3367-0490 Asia Pacific Network Information Centre (APNIC) Ltd Fax: +61-7-3367-0482 Level 1, 33 Park Road, PO Box 2131, Milton, QLD 4064, Australia + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + * APNIC-ANNOUNCE: Announcements concerning APNIC * * To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe" to apnic-announce-request@apnic.net * * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Sun Feb 6 12:24:54 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA123110; Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:24:53 +1000 (EST) Received: from tirad.internal.iphil.net (tirad.internal.iphil.net [203.176.9.125]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA123102 for ; Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:24:50 +1000 (EST) Received: (from map@localhost) by tirad.internal.iphil.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA13507 for apnic-talk@whois.apnic.net; Sun, 6 Feb 2000 10:24:46 +0800 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 10:24:46 +0800 From: "Miguel A.L. Paraz" To: apnic-talk@whois.apnic.net Subject: [apnic-talk] Request for Input: Asia/Pacific ISP Tutorial Content Message-ID: <20000206102446.C12585@tirad.internal.iphil.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Hi, I'm presenting the tutorial "TIPS AND TRICKS FOR ASIA-PACIFIC ISP'S" for APRICOT. I'd appreciate any inputs on this outline, since it's more of a discussion rather than a lecture-type session. Please let me know what topics need to be added or expanded further. Thanks! ---m 1. Assumptions 1.1 Start-up or medium scale ISP 1.2 Design or start-up phase 1.3 Why run an ISP? 1.4 Build and operate, or outsource? 2. Routing and Access 2.1 Tips in selecting an upstream provider 2.2 Do you want to multihome? 2.3 Considerations in running BGP or getting own address space 2.4 Peering with customers 2.5 Peering with "public" exchange points 2.6 Private peering with other ISPs 2.7 Dialup services, RADIUS and roaming 2.8 Cable and DSL 3. Infrastructure Services 3.1 DNS 3.2 E-Mail 3.2.1 Web-based E-Mail Solutions 3.2.2 Building Large-Scale E-Mail 3.2.3 Preventing Mail Abuse 3.3 Web Caching 3.3.1 Transparent Caching 3.3.2 Cache-Augmentation Services 3.4 Web Serving 3.4.1 Offsite high-bandwidth servers 3.4.2 Content Delivery Networks 4. Applications 4.1 Becoming an Application Service Provider 4.2 Servicing Colocated Customers 5. Security 5.1 Host Security 5.2 Network Security 5.3 Auditing 6. Customer Service 6.1 Consumer Customer Service 6.2 Corporate Consulting -- Miguel "Migs" A.L. Paraz http://www.iphil.net Technology, Architecture, Training IPhil Communications Network, Inc. 5/F 116 Herrera St., Legaspi Village, Makati City, Philippines +63-2-750-2288 * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Mon Feb 7 17:10:13 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA70178; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 17:10:13 +1000 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA70154; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 17:10:08 +1000 (EST) Received: from guardian.apnic.net (guardian.apnic.net [203.37.255.100]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA70141; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 17:10:05 +1000 (EST) Received: (from mail@localhost) by guardian.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA15096; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 17:10:03 +1000 (EST) Received: from hadrian.staff.apnic.net(192.168.1.1) by int-gw.staff.apnic.net via smap (V2.1) id xma015094; Mon, 7 Feb 00 17:09:52 +1000 Received: from julubu.staff.apnic.net (julubu.staff.apnic.net [192.168.1.37]) by hadrian.staff.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27976; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 16:56:37 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 17:09:53 +1000 (EST) From: APNIC Secretariat X-Sender: bc@julubu.staff.apnic.net To: apnic-announce@lists.apnic.net, members@lists.apnic.net Subject: [apnic-talk] [apnic-announce] APRICOT Update Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: apnic-talk@apnic.net Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk [Note "reply-to:" field] Dear APNIC Member, APNIC is pleased to forward the following announcements regarding APRICOT2000, on behalf of the APRICOT Executive Committee With best regards (and apologies for duplicates), APNIC Secretariat. + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + APNIC Secretariat Tel: +61-7-3367-0490 Asia Pacific Network Information Centre (APNIC) Ltd Fax: +61-7-3367-0482 Level 1, 33 Park Road, PO Box 2131, Milton, QLD 4064, Australia + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + -----Original Message----- From: owner-apia-members@apia.org [mailto:owner-apia-members@apia.org] On Behalf Of Pindar Wong Subject: [APIA-MEMBERS] Your Participation in APRICOT2000 Greetings! * Registration now open for APRICOT 2000 (Seoul February 28-March 2) * Packed Programme with over 140 distinguished instructors, speakers and fellows from 30+ Countries * Register now and save over 70% (US$ 250 for two days of tutorials and two days of conferences) * Space is limited -- please register as early as possible to avoid disappointment. * See http://www.apricot2000.ne.kr for the latest details * Please circulate to those who need to know * Management Background Briefing Included Below (Cut and Paste) The Asia Pacific Regional Internet Conference on Operational Technologies (APRICOT) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Since 1996, APRICOT has provided a unique and successful educational forum for Internet builders in the region to learn from their peers and other leaders in the Internet community from around the world. The key benefit in attending APRICOT is to synchronize local and regional activities with the rapid developments in the wider Internet in an objective manner that distinguishes between operational realities and marketing 'hype' APRICOT's success is largely due to the excellence of its no-nonsense programme that is focused on Internet operational issues (i.e. issues surrounding the smooth day-to-day operation of Internet-based networks and services). Distinguished speakers and instructors from around the world are kindly denoting their time and expertise to help develop the skills and understanding necessary to grow a robust Internet infrastructure in the Asia Pacific. The intense week-long summit consists of seminars, workshops, clinics, tutorials, conference sessions and birds-of-a-feather (BOFs) meetings that have the following two goals :- 1) spreading and sharing the knowledge required for the operational stability and development of the Internet within the Asia Pacific region. 2) developing affinity groups that foster mutual support throughout the year. APRICOT targets those individuals that directly impact the operational deployment and stability of Internet protocol (IP)-based networks and services. These are namely network operators and engineers, senior executives and regulators. One of the fundamental principles of APRICOT presentations has been its vendor neutral objectiveness that provides for informed opinion. As such, APRICOT is not a marketing or sales-orientated conference and it is known that it highly discourages blatant sales or promotional activities within the conference itself. In essence, APRICOT creates a neutral educational forum that provides for frank discussions on the skills, policies and technologies that are critical for the smooth operation of the Internet's network and service infrastructure both regionally and internationally. APRICOT has a one-year technology horizon. This means to say that APRICOT is involved with those technologies that are either at the heart of today's Internet or those that are very likely to see operational deployment within the next 12 months (e.g. DNSsec). As APRICOT is only organised once a year, special attention is given to the creation of affinity groups that foster mutual support throughout the year. During the year, these affinity groups play a key role as a source of knowledge and experience. This year, APRICOT is jointly organised by:- The Electronics and Telecommunications Research Institute Korea Network Information Center The National Computerization Agency Korea Information Society Development Institute The Open Systems Infrastructure Association The Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology APRICOT is only made possible through the generous contribution of time, talent, money and resources from our distinguished list of sponsors ... all of whom are committed to the continued stable growth of the Internet in our region :- AboveNet APIA APNIC Cable & Wireless HKT Cisco Systems Concert DACOM DreamLine Hanaro Telecom Hanson M Com Hitel IBM IDNS Juniper KDC Korea Telecom Level 3 Lucent Technologies Netpia Nortel Networks Onse Telecom Portal Software PSINet Qwest Teleglobe Unisphere Solutions Unitech We are expecting over 600 engineers and senior management to attend APRICOT this year. Therefore please make arrangements for you and your staff to register as early as possible to avoid disappointment. See you all in Seoul! Yours sincerely, Pindar Wong Chairman APRICOT2000 Executive Committee * APNIC-ANNOUNCE: Announcements concerning APNIC * * To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe" to apnic-announce-request@apnic.net * * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Tue Feb 8 09:41:52 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA68495; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:41:52 +1000 (EST) Received: from kuji.off.connect.com.au (kuji.off.connect.com.au [203.63.69.33]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA68491 for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:41:50 +1000 (EST) Received: from connect.com.au (mrp@localhost) by kuji.off.connect.com.au with ESMTP id KAA07895 (8.8.8/IDA-1.6 for ); Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:11:49 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <200002072341.KAA07895@kuji.off.connect.com.au> To: apnic-talk@apnic.net Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] [apnic-announce] APRICOT Update In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 07 Feb 2000 17:09:53 +1000." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <7893.949966908.1@connect.com.au> Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 10:11:48 +1030 From: Mark Prior Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk * Register now and save over 70% (US$ 250 for two days of tutorials and two days of conferences) It would help if there was a programme online. Mark. * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Tue Feb 8 16:02:42 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA93647; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 16:02:42 +1000 (EST) Received: from kiwi.globalone.ad.jp (kiwi.globalone.ad.jp [202.216.40.14]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA93640 for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 16:02:38 +1000 (EST) Received: from tanqueray (t99-133.nanog.exodus.net [216.33.133.99]) by kiwi.globalone.ad.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) with ESMTP id PAA79314 for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 15:02:32 +0900 (JST) To: apnic-talk@apnic.net Subject: [apnic-talk] a proposal agendum for policy SIG at Korea From: MAEMURA Akinori Message-Id: <200002081502.FEJ26279.BFNN@maem.org> X-Mailer: Winbiff [Version 2.31 beta2] Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 15:02:26 +0900 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Folks, I submitted a proposal agendum for policy SIG at APRICOT 2000, and it has been approved. The abstruct is below. The Private Information Issue is getting more serious these days. For the people who are personally connected to the Internet with some IP addresses, whose contact info including postal addresses or phone numbers are exhibited at WHOIS database, the issue is quite serious. I'd like to have some discussions at the policy SIG and try to seek the solutions, I mean, the good trade-offs between private info protection and leaf site info availability for network ops. Please feel easy to make comment for questions for this, at this mailing list. Thank you in advance. ----- Title: Handling of Personal Information on the APNIC Database Applicant: MAEMURA Akinori, IP working group, JPNIC Circumstances: Since the dedicated line service got cheaper than it used to be, personal sites connected to the Internet by dedicated lines are increasing these days. It is regulated that all the IP address assignments are registered onto APNIC database with the postal addresses and the phone numbers of their points-of-contact(POCs). Consequently it leads out the private information of the administrators of the personal sites to the public. Therefore it might be the problem of the abuse of private information, say the Issues of Private Information. Proposal: One of the measure to solve this problem is to register their ISP's POCs as POCs of the sites. This measure needs ISPs' recognitions and corporation. Anyway I'd like to discuss this issue at the policy SIG to provide some principles on the protection of private information to APNIC. ----- ----- MAEMURA Akinori Vice chair of IPwg, JPNIC Senior Engineer, IP Engineering, Global One Japan * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Tue Feb 8 18:32:23 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA106944; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 18:32:22 +1000 (EST) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA106933 for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 18:32:18 +1000 (EST) Received: from ix.netcom.com (user-33qsdnk.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.54.244]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA24799; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 03:32:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <389FEE0B.2EB5B0A2@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 02:20:59 -0800 From: Jeff Williams Organization: INEGroup Spokesman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win95; U; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: apnic-talk@apnic.net CC: MAEMURA Akinori Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] a proposal agendum for policy SIG at Korea References: <200002081502.FEJ26279.BFNN@maem.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Maemura and all, Good discussion to get under way here. Glad you brought it up. At present not all IP addresses are listed in a centralized "Whose" database. This needs to be corrected soon. Personal information should NOT be listed in the WHOIS for IP addresses. I would suggest that following as sufficient. Name E-mail contact address and working phone number Postal addresses should NOT be listed. MAEMURA Akinori wrote: > Folks, > > I submitted a proposal agendum for policy SIG at APRICOT > 2000, and it has been approved. The abstruct is below. > > The Private Information Issue is getting more serious > these days. For the people who are personally connected to > the Internet with some IP addresses, whose contact info > including postal addresses or phone numbers are exhibited at > WHOIS database, the issue is quite serious. > > I'd like to have some discussions at the policy SIG and > try to seek the solutions, I mean, the good trade-offs > between private info protection and leaf site info > availability for network ops. > > Please feel easy to make comment for questions for this, > at this mailing list. > > Thank you in advance. > > ----- > Title: Handling of Personal Information on the APNIC Database > Applicant: MAEMURA Akinori, IP working group, JPNIC > > Circumstances: > Since the dedicated line service got cheaper than it used to be, > personal sites connected to the Internet by dedicated lines are > increasing these days. > > It is regulated that all the IP address assignments are registered > onto APNIC database with the postal addresses and the phone numbers of > their points-of-contact(POCs). Consequently it leads out the private > information of the administrators of the personal sites to the public. > Therefore it might be the problem of the abuse of private information, > say the Issues of Private Information. > > Proposal: > One of the measure to solve this problem is to register their ISP's > POCs as POCs of the sites. This measure needs ISPs' recognitions and > corporation. Anyway I'd like to discuss this issue at the policy SIG > to provide some principles on the protection of private information to > APNIC. > > ----- > > ----- > MAEMURA Akinori > Vice chair of IPwg, JPNIC > Senior Engineer, IP Engineering, Global One Japan > > * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * > * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * Regards, -- Jeffrey A. Williams Spokesman INEGroup (Over 95k members strong!) CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng. Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC. E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com Contact Number: 972-447-1894 Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208 * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Tue Feb 8 19:26:33 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA111641; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 19:26:32 +1000 (EST) Received: from guardian.apnic.net (guardian.apnic.net [203.37.255.100]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA111637 for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 19:26:31 +1000 (EST) Received: (from mail@localhost) by guardian.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA02712; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 19:26:28 +1000 (EST) Received: from hadrian.staff.apnic.net(192.168.1.1) by int-gw.staff.apnic.net via smap (V2.1) id xma002708; Tue, 8 Feb 00 19:26:04 +1000 Received: from julubu.staff.apnic.net (julubu.staff.apnic.net [192.168.1.37]) by hadrian.staff.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14270; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 19:25:02 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 19:26:05 +1000 (EST) From: Bruce Campbell X-Sender: bc@julubu.staff.apnic.net To: apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net cc: Mark Prior Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] [apnic-announce] APRICOT Update In-Reply-To: <200002072341.KAA07895@kuji.off.connect.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk On Tue, 8 Feb 2000, Mark Prior wrote: mrp> * Register now and save over 70% (US$ 250 for two days of tutorials and mrp> two days of conferences) mrp> mrp> It would help if there was a programme online. https://www.apricot2000.ne.kr/apricot/Schedule/Schemain.htm a closer mirror to yourself would be: http://www.apricot.net/apricot2000/Schedule/ScheGlance.htm Kind regards, -- Bruce Campbell +61-7-3367-0490 Systems Administrator Regional Internet Registry Asia Pacific Network Information Centre For the Asia Pacific Region * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Wed Feb 9 02:56:15 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA74925; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 02:56:15 +1000 (EST) Received: from kiwi.globalone.ad.jp (kiwi.globalone.ad.jp [202.216.40.14]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA74919 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 02:56:11 +1000 (EST) Received: from tanqueray (t99-133.nanog.exodus.net [216.33.133.99]) by kiwi.globalone.ad.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) with ESMTP id BAA80530; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 01:55:50 +0900 (JST) To: jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com Cc: apnic-talk@apnic.net Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] a proposal agendum for policy SIG at Korea From: MAEMURA Akinori References: <200002081502.FEJ26279.BFNN@maem.org> <389FEE0B.2EB5B0A2@ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <389FEE0B.2EB5B0A2@ix.netcom.com> Message-Id: <200002090155.AJI79980.BNNF@maem.org> X-Mailer: Winbiff [Version 2.31 beta2] Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 01:55:48 +0900 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Jeff, Thank you for your comment. My idea is, o Personal postal address and phone# have to be kept at IRs. IRs need to identify the user of the Internet resource. o But they must not be exhibited. What to exhibit is the name and some degree of ID info, for example what city he/she lives to tell me out of many MAEMURA Akinori's :-) all around the world or something. ( even though I've never seen another MAEMURA Akinori) o For operational POC, upsteam ISP seems to be appropriate Your idea of working phone number, of course may make sense. But I think abuse phone to the work firm may bother him/her enough. :| Maemura and all, :| :| Good discussion to get under way here. Glad you brought it up. :| :| At present not all IP addresses are listed in a centralized "Whose" :| database. This needs to be corrected soon. :| :| Personal information should NOT be listed in the WHOIS :| for IP addresses. I would suggest that following as sufficient. :| :| Name :| E-mail contact address :| and working phone number :| :| Postal addresses should NOT be listed. :| :| MAEMURA Akinori wrote: :| :| > Folks, :| > :| > I submitted a proposal agendum for policy SIG at APRICOT :| > 2000, and it has been approved. The abstruct is below. :| > :| > The Private Information Issue is getting more serious :| > these days. For the people who are personally connected to :| > the Internet with some IP addresses, whose contact info :| > including postal addresses or phone numbers are exhibited at :| > WHOIS database, the issue is quite serious. :| > :| > I'd like to have some discussions at the policy SIG and :| > try to seek the solutions, I mean, the good trade-offs :| > between private info protection and leaf site info :| > availability for network ops. :| > :| > Please feel easy to make comment for questions for this, :| > at this mailing list. :| > :| > Thank you in advance. :| > :| > ----- :| > Title: Handling of Personal Information on the APNIC Database :| > Applicant: MAEMURA Akinori, IP working group, JPNIC :| > :| > Circumstances: :| > Since the dedicated line service got cheaper than it used to be, :| > personal sites connected to the Internet by dedicated lines are :| > increasing these days. :| > :| > It is regulated that all the IP address assignments are registered :| > onto APNIC database with the postal addresses and the phone numbers of :| > their points-of-contact(POCs). Consequently it leads out the private :| > information of the administrators of the personal sites to the public. :| > Therefore it might be the problem of the abuse of private information, :| > say the Issues of Private Information. :| > :| > Proposal: :| > One of the measure to solve this problem is to register their ISP's :| > POCs as POCs of the sites. This measure needs ISPs' recognitions and :| > corporation. Anyway I'd like to discuss this issue at the policy SIG :| > to provide some principles on the protection of private information to :| > APNIC. :| > :| > ----- :snip: --maem * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Wed Feb 9 04:16:04 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA79233; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 04:16:03 +1000 (EST) Received: from tardis.patho.gen.nz (tardis.patho.gen.nz [203.97.2.226]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA79228 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 04:16:01 +1000 (EST) Received: (from jabley@localhost) by tardis.patho.gen.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA31152; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 07:15:56 +1300 (NZDT) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 07:15:55 +1300 From: Joe Abley To: Jeff Williams Cc: apnic-talk@apnic.net, MAEMURA Akinori Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] a proposal agendum for policy SIG at Korea Message-ID: <20000209071554.B2158@patho.gen.nz> References: <200002081502.FEJ26279.BFNN@maem.org> <389FEE0B.2EB5B0A2@ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <389FEE0B.2EB5B0A2@ix.netcom.com>; from jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com on Tue, Feb 08, 2000 at 02:20:59AM -0800 X-Files: the Truth is Out There Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk On Tue, Feb 08, 2000 at 02:20:59AM -0800, Jeff Williams wrote: > At present not all IP addresses are listed in a centralized "Whose" > database. This needs to be corrected soon. You can find details of most delegated networks by querying whois.arin.net, followed by whois.apnic.net or whois.ripe.net (and subsequent sub-regional registries if necessary) in the case that they have been sub-delegated by a registry. Are you advocating a centralised database which contains the union of data stored in all regional registries, so as to have a single place to query for all addresses? > Personal information should NOT be listed in the WHOIS > for IP addresses. I would suggest that following as sufficient. > > Name > E-mail contact address > and working phone number > > Postal addresses should NOT be listed. Why? Joe * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Wed Feb 9 05:04:06 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA81559; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 05:04:05 +1000 (EST) Received: from tardis.patho.gen.nz (tardis.patho.gen.nz [203.97.2.226]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA81554 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 05:04:04 +1000 (EST) Received: (from jabley@localhost) by tardis.patho.gen.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA03051; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 08:03:37 +1300 (NZDT) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 08:03:37 +1300 From: Joe Abley To: MAEMURA Akinori Cc: jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com, apnic-talk@apnic.net Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] a proposal agendum for policy SIG at Korea Message-ID: <20000209080335.D2158@patho.gen.nz> References: <200002081502.FEJ26279.BFNN@maem.org> <389FEE0B.2EB5B0A2@ix.netcom.com> <200002090155.AJI79980.BNNF@maem.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <200002090155.AJI79980.BNNF@maem.org>; from maem@maem.org on Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 01:55:48AM +0900 X-Files: the Truth is Out There Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Hi, On Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 01:55:48AM +0900, MAEMURA Akinori wrote: > Your idea of working phone number, of course may make > sense. But I think abuse phone to the work firm may bother > him/her enough. My personal cellphone number is listed (or has been listed) as technical contact for a large number of networks, and I have yet to receive a troublesome call. On the other hand, being able to find a phone number at a remote network is extremely useful when tracking serious network problems or security incidents. In my experience, the benefits far exceed the risks. Joe * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Wed Feb 9 09:43:05 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA95068; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:43:05 +1000 (EST) Received: from kiwi.globalone.ad.jp (kiwi.globalone.ad.jp [202.216.40.14]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA95064 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:43:02 +1000 (EST) Received: from tanqueray (t89-132.nanog.exodus.net [216.33.132.89]) by kiwi.globalone.ad.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) with ESMTP id IAA81649; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 08:42:24 +0900 (JST) To: jabley@patho.gen.nz Cc: jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com, apnic-talk@apnic.net Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] a proposal agendum for policy SIG at Korea From: MAEMURA Akinori References: <200002081502.FEJ26279.BFNN@maem.org> <389FEE0B.2EB5B0A2@ix.netcom.com> <200002090155.AJI79980.BNNF@maem.org> <20000209080335.D2158@patho.gen.nz> In-Reply-To: <20000209080335.D2158@patho.gen.nz> Message-Id: <200002090842.DEC20342.FNBN@maem.org> X-Mailer: Winbiff [Version 2.31 beta2] Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 08:42:26 +0900 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Joe, Thank you for your comment. Yes, I understand phone number is useful. In your case of an expert engineer, it may be useful rather than harmful. My Idea is that, phone numbers is optional. You can get it exhibit or suppressed, and if suppressed, POC by upstream ISP comes to be mandatory. How do you like it, all? --maem :| Hi, :| :| On Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 01:55:48AM +0900, MAEMURA Akinori wrote: :| > Your idea of working phone number, of course may make :| > sense. But I think abuse phone to the work firm may bother :| > him/her enough. :| :| My personal cellphone number is listed (or has been listed) as :| technical contact for a large number of networks, and I have yet :| to receive a troublesome call. :| :| On the other hand, being able to find a phone number at a remote :| network is extremely useful when tracking serious network problems :| or security incidents. :| :| In my experience, the benefits far exceed the risks. :| :| :| Joe :| * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * :| * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Wed Feb 9 09:53:31 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA95606; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:53:31 +1000 (EST) Received: from fb01.eng00.mindspring.net (fb01.eng00.mindspring.net [207.69.229.19]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA95602 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:53:28 +1000 (EST) Received: from ix.netcom.com (user-33qse2f.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.56.79]) by fb01.eng00.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA17798; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 18:53:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <38A0C5F2.12379E42@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:42:11 -0800 From: Jeff Williams Organization: INEGroup Spokesman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win95; U; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: apnic-talk@apnic.net CC: MAEMURA Akinori Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] a proposal agendum for policy SIG at Korea References: <200002081502.FEJ26279.BFNN@maem.org> <389FEE0B.2EB5B0A2@ix.netcom.com> <200002090155.AJI79980.BNNF@maem.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Maemura and all, MAEMURA Akinori wrote: > Jeff, > > Thank you for your comment. > > My idea is, > > o Personal postal address and phone# have to be kept > at IRs. IRs need to identify the user of the > Internet resource. How are IR's going to guarantee privacy if address info is given? Do the IR's have a privacy policy that can meet privacy laws in various countries? > > > o But they must not be exhibited. What to exhibit is > the name and some degree of ID info, for example > what city he/she lives to tell me out of many > MAEMURA Akinori's :-) all around the world or > something. ( even though I've never seen another > MAEMURA Akinori) This just will not meet current privacy laws on a global basis. > > > o For operational POC, upsteam ISP seems to be > appropriate > > Your idea of working phone number, of course may make > sense. But I think abuse phone to the work firm may bother > him/her enough. > > :| Maemura and all, > :| > :| Good discussion to get under way here. Glad you brought it up. > :| > :| At present not all IP addresses are listed in a centralized "Whose" > :| database. This needs to be corrected soon. > :| > :| Personal information should NOT be listed in the WHOIS > :| for IP addresses. I would suggest that following as sufficient. > :| > :| Name > :| E-mail contact address > :| and working phone number > :| > :| Postal addresses should NOT be listed. > :| > :| MAEMURA Akinori wrote: > :| > :| > Folks, > :| > > :| > I submitted a proposal agendum for policy SIG at APRICOT > :| > 2000, and it has been approved. The abstruct is below. > :| > > :| > The Private Information Issue is getting more serious > :| > these days. For the people who are personally connected to > :| > the Internet with some IP addresses, whose contact info > :| > including postal addresses or phone numbers are exhibited at > :| > WHOIS database, the issue is quite serious. > :| > > :| > I'd like to have some discussions at the policy SIG and > :| > try to seek the solutions, I mean, the good trade-offs > :| > between private info protection and leaf site info > :| > availability for network ops. > :| > > :| > Please feel easy to make comment for questions for this, > :| > at this mailing list. > :| > > :| > Thank you in advance. > :| > > :| > ----- > :| > Title: Handling of Personal Information on the APNIC Database > :| > Applicant: MAEMURA Akinori, IP working group, JPNIC > :| > > :| > Circumstances: > :| > Since the dedicated line service got cheaper than it used to be, > :| > personal sites connected to the Internet by dedicated lines are > :| > increasing these days. > :| > > :| > It is regulated that all the IP address assignments are registered > :| > onto APNIC database with the postal addresses and the phone numbers of > :| > their points-of-contact(POCs). Consequently it leads out the private > :| > information of the administrators of the personal sites to the public. > :| > Therefore it might be the problem of the abuse of private information, > :| > say the Issues of Private Information. > :| > > :| > Proposal: > :| > One of the measure to solve this problem is to register their ISP's > :| > POCs as POCs of the sites. This measure needs ISPs' recognitions and > :| > corporation. Anyway I'd like to discuss this issue at the policy SIG > :| > to provide some principles on the protection of private information to > :| > APNIC. > :| > > :| > ----- > :snip: > > --maem Regards, -- Jeffrey A. Williams Spokesman INEGroup (Over 95k members strong!) CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng. Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC. E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com Contact Number: 972-447-1894 Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208 * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Wed Feb 9 10:00:40 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA95958; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:00:39 +1000 (EST) Received: from fb01.eng00.mindspring.net (fb01.eng00.mindspring.net [207.69.229.19]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA95952 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:00:36 +1000 (EST) Received: from ix.netcom.com (user-33qse2f.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.56.79]) by fb01.eng00.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA18552; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 19:00:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <38A0C7A0.C7F86F9D@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:49:21 -0800 From: Jeff Williams Organization: INEGroup Spokesman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win95; U; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: apnic-talk@apnic.net CC: Joe Abley , MAEMURA Akinori Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] a proposal agendum for policy SIG at Korea References: <200002081502.FEJ26279.BFNN@maem.org> <389FEE0B.2EB5B0A2@ix.netcom.com> <20000209071554.B2158@patho.gen.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Joe and all, Joe Abley wrote: > On Tue, Feb 08, 2000 at 02:20:59AM -0800, Jeff Williams wrote: > > At present not all IP addresses are listed in a centralized "Whose" > > database. This needs to be corrected soon. > > You can find details of most delegated networks by querying whois.arin.net, > followed by whois.apnic.net or whois.ripe.net (and subsequent sub-regional > registries if necessary) in the case that they have been sub-delegated by > a registry. Yes I am aware of this. But thank you anyway. >;) > > > Are you advocating a centralised database which contains the union of > data stored in all regional registries, so as to have a single place to > query for all addresses? Yes I am. > > > > Personal information should NOT be listed in the WHOIS > > for IP addresses. I would suggest that following as sufficient. > > > > Name > > E-mail contact address > > and working phone number > > > > Postal addresses should NOT be listed. > > Why? It is a privacy issue and concern. > > > Joe Regards, -- Jeffrey A. Williams Spokesman INEGroup (Over 95k members strong!) CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng. Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC. E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com Contact Number: 972-447-1894 Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208 * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Wed Feb 9 10:04:07 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA96144; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:04:06 +1000 (EST) Received: from fb01.eng00.mindspring.net (fb01.eng00.mindspring.net [207.69.229.19]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA96139 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:04:03 +1000 (EST) Received: from ix.netcom.com (user-33qse2f.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.56.79]) by fb01.eng00.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA10125; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 19:03:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <38A0C870.B670839C@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:52:48 -0800 From: Jeff Williams Organization: INEGroup Spokesman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win95; U; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: apnic-talk@apnic.net CC: Joe Abley , MAEMURA Akinori Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] a proposal agendum for policy SIG at Korea References: <200002081502.FEJ26279.BFNN@maem.org> <389FEE0B.2EB5B0A2@ix.netcom.com> <200002090155.AJI79980.BNNF@maem.org> <20000209080335.D2158@patho.gen.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Joe and all, Others may not feel as you do Joe. I am one of those. Joe Abley wrote: > Hi, > > On Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 01:55:48AM +0900, MAEMURA Akinori wrote: > > Your idea of working phone number, of course may make > > sense. But I think abuse phone to the work firm may bother > > him/her enough. > > My personal cellphone number is listed (or has been listed) as > technical contact for a large number of networks, and I have yet > to receive a troublesome call. > > On the other hand, being able to find a phone number at a remote > network is extremely useful when tracking serious network problems > or security incidents. > > In my experience, the benefits far exceed the risks. > > Joe Regards, -- Jeffrey A. Williams Spokesman INEGroup (Over 95k members strong!) CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng. Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC. E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com Contact Number: 972-447-1894 Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208 * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Wed Feb 9 10:43:45 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA98348; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:43:45 +1000 (EST) Received: from tardis.patho.gen.nz (tardis.patho.gen.nz [203.97.2.226]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA98341 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:43:43 +1000 (EST) Received: (from jabley@localhost) by tardis.patho.gen.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA15536; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 13:43:26 +1300 (NZDT) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 13:43:25 +1300 From: Joe Abley To: Jeff Williams Cc: apnic-talk@apnic.net, MAEMURA Akinori Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] a proposal agendum for policy SIG at Korea Message-ID: <20000209134323.C11297@patho.gen.nz> References: <200002081502.FEJ26279.BFNN@maem.org> <389FEE0B.2EB5B0A2@ix.netcom.com> <20000209071554.B2158@patho.gen.nz> <38A0C7A0.C7F86F9D@ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <38A0C7A0.C7F86F9D@ix.netcom.com>; from jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com on Tue, Feb 08, 2000 at 05:49:21PM -0800 X-Files: the Truth is Out There Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk On Tue, Feb 08, 2000 at 05:49:21PM -0800, Jeff Williams wrote: > Joe and all, > > Joe Abley wrote: > > > [how to suck eggs] > > Yes I am aware of this. But thank you anyway. >;) Any time :) > > Are you advocating a centralised database which contains the union of > > data stored in all regional registries, so as to have a single place to > > query for all addresses? > > Yes I am. That sounds trivial to code up without involving the registries concerned -- you just need some ugly awk scripts to parse some whois queries from the registries. Or do you have some other, less hackish plan? > > > Postal addresses should NOT be listed. > > > > Why? > > It is a privacy issue and concern. Many people hide behind PO Box type addresses in order to avoid divulging street addresses. Other people just include incomplete addresses (e.g. name, company name, city, country). Is this degree of privacy insufficient? Joe * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Wed Feb 9 10:44:23 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA98398; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:44:22 +1000 (EST) Received: from tardis.patho.gen.nz (tardis.patho.gen.nz [203.97.2.226]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA98394 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:44:21 +1000 (EST) Received: (from jabley@localhost) by tardis.patho.gen.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA07996; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 13:44:17 +1300 (NZDT) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 13:44:16 +1300 From: Joe Abley To: Jeff Williams Cc: apnic-talk@apnic.net, MAEMURA Akinori Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] a proposal agendum for policy SIG at Korea Message-ID: <20000209134412.D11297@patho.gen.nz> References: <200002081502.FEJ26279.BFNN@maem.org> <389FEE0B.2EB5B0A2@ix.netcom.com> <200002090155.AJI79980.BNNF@maem.org> <20000209080335.D2158@patho.gen.nz> <38A0C870.B670839C@ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <38A0C870.B670839C@ix.netcom.com>; from jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com on Tue, Feb 08, 2000 at 05:52:48PM -0800 X-Files: the Truth is Out There Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk On Tue, Feb 08, 2000 at 05:52:48PM -0800, Jeff Williams wrote: > > Others may not feel as you do Joe. I am one of those. > Always good to hear others' points of view, Jeff. Joe * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Wed Feb 9 11:09:11 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA99811; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 11:09:11 +1000 (EST) Received: from mailGW1.ntt-osd.ocn.ne.jp (mailGW1.ntt-osd.ocn.ne.jp [210.154.107.98]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA99806 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 11:09:08 +1000 (EST) Received: from relay2.ntt-osd.ocn.ne.jp by mailGW1.ntt-osd.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) with ESMTP id KAA11161 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:08:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from mail1.ntt-osd.ocn.ne.jp by relay2.ntt-osd.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) with ESMTP id KAA12537 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:08:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from ezura by mail1.ntt-osd.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) with ESMTP id KAA18821 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:08:04 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.J.20000209100854.00ca0100@mail.ntt-osd.ocn.ne.jp> X-Sender: ezura@mail.ntt-osd.ocn.ne.jp X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58.J Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 10:09:11 +0900 To: apnic-talk@apnic.net From: Yoshiyuki Ezura Subject: [apnic-talk] [a proposal agendum] simple assignment procedure of length /29 or longer prefix Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Folks, I submitted a proposal agendum for the Address Policy SIG at APRICOT 2000, and it has been approved. The abstruct is down below. Please feel easy to make comments or questions for about this proposal on this mailing list. Thank you in advance. Best Regards, Yoshiyuki Ezura --- Title: Proposal for simple assignment procedure of length /29 or longer prefix Applicant: Yoshiyuki Ezura, IP working group, JPNIC - Introduction RFC2050 and APNIC's policy define that ISP's customers must exhibit very precise projection for their one year address usages and the justifications for it. This rule is even applied to the prefix which is /29 or /30. /29s and /30s are widely used in Japan by personal users now, which costs too much for both the applicants and Internet Registry. It may impede the sound growth of the Internet. - Proposal We propose a simple procedure in which applicants don't need the network detail information in the case when a prefix is longer than /28. It seems to be reasonable since in the case of /29s, three hosts, for example one gateway router and two hosts on the segment, is enough to satisfy the RFC2050 criteria. - Reasons or Advantages We at JPNIC held a trial operation from March 1998 until January 2000, that didn't require the network detail information in the case of when assigning /29 and longer, to encourage assignment of longer prefixes and preservation of the IP address space. Now in Japan, 41% of all assignments is /29 and longer and 87% is /28 and longer. We believe that trial operation was successful in address space preservation and that this contributes a great reduction in resources needed for address assignment at JPNIC, LIR and personal end-users as well. * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Wed Feb 9 11:46:10 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA102267; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 11:46:09 +1000 (EST) Received: from fb02.eng00.mindspring.net (fb02.eng00.mindspring.net [207.69.229.20]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA102252 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 11:46:06 +1000 (EST) Received: from ix.netcom.com (user-33qsckv.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.50.159]) by fb02.eng00.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA01182; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 20:45:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <38A0E050.8A7AA658@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 19:34:41 -0800 From: Jeff Williams Organization: INEGroup Spokesman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win95; U; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: apnic-talk@apnic.net CC: Joe Abley , MAEMURA Akinori Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] a proposal agendum for policy SIG at Korea References: <200002081502.FEJ26279.BFNN@maem.org> <389FEE0B.2EB5B0A2@ix.netcom.com> <20000209071554.B2158@patho.gen.nz> <38A0C7A0.C7F86F9D@ix.netcom.com> <20000209134323.C11297@patho.gen.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Joe and all, Joe Abley wrote: > On Tue, Feb 08, 2000 at 05:49:21PM -0800, Jeff Williams wrote: > > Joe and all, > > > > Joe Abley wrote: > > > > > [how to suck eggs] > > > > Yes I am aware of this. But thank you anyway. >;) > > Any time :) > > > > Are you advocating a centralised database which contains the union of > > > data stored in all regional registries, so as to have a single place to > > > query for all addresses? > > > > Yes I am. > > That sounds trivial to code up without involving the registries > concerned -- you just need some ugly awk scripts to parse some > whois queries from the registries. > > Or do you have some other, less hackish plan? Something much less hackish would be much better don't you think? > > > > > > Postal addresses should NOT be listed. > > > > > > Why? > > > > It is a privacy issue and concern. > > Many people hide behind PO Box type addresses in order to avoid > divulging street addresses. Other people just include incomplete > addresses (e.g. name, company name, city, country). Well I have a P.O. Box address for instance. But I am not using one for purposes of hiding. I live in the country where mail delivery is not all that good and I do not have a mail box at my home. Other people maintain more than one residence for instance as well. I also do as well. Some people have dual citizenship, I am also one of those people as well. I know many others as well. In addition privacy laws in some countries prohibit or severely restrict this sort of information being publicly accessible. For all of these reasons, and others I have not mentioned here are why I believe that having postal address listed is problematic at best. > > > Is this degree of privacy insufficient? In a word, no. If the IR's had a guarantee that fits with the various legal requirements with an independent audit clause as mandatory for guaranteeing Privacy of the individuals, it might be possible. > > > Joe Regards, -- Jeffrey A. Williams Spokesman INEGroup (Over 95k members strong!) CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng. Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC. E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com Contact Number: 972-447-1894 Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208 * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Wed Feb 9 11:49:36 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA102534; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 11:49:35 +1000 (EST) Received: from tardis.patho.gen.nz (tardis.patho.gen.nz [203.97.2.226]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA102528 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 11:49:34 +1000 (EST) Received: (from jabley@localhost) by tardis.patho.gen.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA30997; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 14:49:24 +1300 (NZDT) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 14:49:23 +1300 From: Joe Abley To: Jeff Williams Cc: apnic-talk@apnic.net, MAEMURA Akinori Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] a proposal agendum for policy SIG at Korea Message-ID: <20000209144918.A1668@patho.gen.nz> References: <200002081502.FEJ26279.BFNN@maem.org> <389FEE0B.2EB5B0A2@ix.netcom.com> <20000209071554.B2158@patho.gen.nz> <38A0C7A0.C7F86F9D@ix.netcom.com> <20000209134323.C11297@patho.gen.nz> <38A0E050.8A7AA658@ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <38A0E050.8A7AA658@ix.netcom.com>; from jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com on Tue, Feb 08, 2000 at 07:34:41PM -0800 X-Files: the Truth is Out There Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk On Tue, Feb 08, 2000 at 07:34:41PM -0800, Jeff Williams wrote: > > Or do you have some other, less hackish plan? > > Something much less hackish would be much better don't you > think? Absolutely. I just have my doubts about whether it would ever be agreed upon, never mind deployed ;) Joe * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Wed Feb 9 12:00:17 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA103411; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 12:00:16 +1000 (EST) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA103403 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 12:00:11 +1000 (EST) Received: from ix.netcom.com (user-33qsckv.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.50.159]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA25997; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 21:00:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <38A0E3A7.9A7E45BE@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 19:48:55 -0800 From: Jeff Williams Organization: INEGroup Spokesman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win95; U; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: apnic-talk@apnic.net CC: Joe Abley , MAEMURA Akinori Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] a proposal agendum for policy SIG at Korea References: <200002081502.FEJ26279.BFNN@maem.org> <389FEE0B.2EB5B0A2@ix.netcom.com> <20000209071554.B2158@patho.gen.nz> <38A0C7A0.C7F86F9D@ix.netcom.com> <20000209134323.C11297@patho.gen.nz> <38A0E050.8A7AA658@ix.netcom.com> <20000209144918.A1668@patho.gen.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Joe and all, Joe Abley wrote: > On Tue, Feb 08, 2000 at 07:34:41PM -0800, Jeff Williams wrote: > > > Or do you have some other, less hackish plan? > > > > Something much less hackish would be much better don't you > > think? > > Absolutely. I just have my doubts about whether it would ever be > agreed upon, never mind deployed ;) This indeed may be true. It was just a suggestion. I don't know why it would be deployed however. Seems a negative approach to and improvement to me. I can do it locally anyway now, but this should be done I believe, for everyone's use for obvious reasons. I have the code presently, and would share it with APNIC, Ripe, or ARIN if they agreed to set up a centralized Whois for it's use. > > > Joe Regards, -- Jeffrey A. Williams Spokesman INEGroup (Over 95k members strong!) CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng. Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC. E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com Contact Number: 972-447-1894 Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208 * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Wed Feb 9 12:18:47 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA104695; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 12:18:47 +1000 (EST) Received: from lily.appgmm.lab.kdd.co.jp ([202.239.183.1]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA104690 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 12:18:45 +1000 (EST) Received: from yoobata-98 ([133.217.59.186]) by lily.appgmm.lab.kdd.co.jp (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2J release 205-101-J ID# 110-49798U100L100S0J) with ESMTP id AAA232; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 11:18:28 +0900 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.J.20000209110300.034f15b0@lily.appgmm.lab.kdd.co.jp> X-Sender: obata@benten.rd.kddnet.ad.jp Reply-To: obata@iri.co.jp X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58.J Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 11:06:52 +0900 To: MAEMURA Akinori From: Yoshihiro Obata Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] a proposal agendum for policy SIG at Korea Cc: jabley@patho.gen.nz, jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com, apnic-talk@apnic.net In-Reply-To: <200002090842.DEC20342.FNBN@maem.org> References: <20000209080335.D2158@patho.gen.nz> <200002081502.FEJ26279.BFNN@maem.org> <389FEE0B.2EB5B0A2@ix.netcom.com> <200002090155.AJI79980.BNNF@maem.org> <20000209080335.D2158@patho.gen.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk At 08:42 00/02/09 +0900, MAEMURA Akinori wrote: >Joe, > > Thank you for your comment. > > Yes, I understand phone number is useful. In your case of >an expert engineer, it may be useful rather than harmful. > > > My Idea is that, phone numbers is optional. You can get it >exhibit or suppressed, and if suppressed, POC by upstream >ISP comes to be mandatory. How do you decide who is the upstream? It is a complicated work to quickly find out the responsible upstream. What we really need is a way to quickly contact the responsible person. It can be either e-mail, phone, fax or any form, which can be chosen by the network owner concerned. However, there need to be at least one on a 24 hours basis. Otherwise, it is hard to get quick support when a network is intentionally, non-intentionally or unknowingly doing harm to other networks. Yoshi * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Wed Feb 9 12:40:42 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA106296; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 12:40:41 +1000 (EST) Received: from guardian.apnic.net (guardian.apnic.net [203.37.255.100]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA106284 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 12:40:39 +1000 (EST) Received: (from mail@localhost) by guardian.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA13348 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 12:40:26 +1000 (EST) Received: from hadrian.staff.apnic.net(192.168.1.1) by int-gw.staff.apnic.net via smap (V2.1) id xma013343; Wed, 9 Feb 00 12:40:08 +1000 Received: from julubu.staff.apnic.net (julubu.staff.apnic.net [192.168.1.37]) by hadrian.staff.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08137 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 12:40:07 +1000 (EST) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 12:40:17 +1000 (EST) From: Bruce Campbell X-Sender: bc@julubu.staff.apnic.net To: apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] a proposal agendum for policy SIG at Korea In-Reply-To: <38A0E3A7.9A7E45BE@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk On Tue, 8 Feb 2000, Jeff Williams wrote: [ on a centralised whois registry ] jwkcki> > Absolutely. I just have my doubts about whether it would ever be jwkcki> > agreed upon, never mind deployed ;) jwkcki> jwkcki> should be done I believe, for everyone's use for obvious reasons. jwkcki> I have the code presently, and would share it with APNIC, Ripe, jwkcki> or ARIN if they agreed to set up a centralized Whois for it's use. Currently, the whois code as used by both APNIC and the RIPE NCC supports mirroring of other databases, and is used by both APNIC and the RIPE NCC by mirroring certain information of other databases. However, to make it easier for anyone reading the archives of this list, please keep this thread to the original topic, being 'Handling of Personal Information in the APNIC database'. Regards, -- Bruce Campbell +61-7-3367-0490 Systems Administrator Regional Internet Registry Asia Pacific Network Information Centre For the Asia Pacific Region * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Wed Feb 9 14:36:42 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA114843; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 14:36:41 +1000 (EST) Received: from ns1.dot.net.au (ns1.dot.net.au [202.147.64.5]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA114839 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 14:36:40 +1000 (EST) Received: from sharpie (sharpie.mailtv.net.au [202.147.66.16]) by ns1.dot.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA19121 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 15:35:27 +1100 From: "James Spenceley" To: Subject: [apnic-talk] Address Policy SIG - Presentation Outline Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 15:55:16 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk The following presentation for the Address Policy SIG was proposed and has been accepted, discussion is therefore opened and welcomed. Subject: "Re-claiming (historically assigned) not-routed address space" Applicant: James Spenceley, Network Manager - MailTV Ltd * Introduction and outline - Definitions - Idenitifing Asia/Pac (historical) allocations considered "swamps" - Individual characteristic of each "swamp" - What (possible) effects could address "swamps" have on table growth - Tools avalible and planned * Case study 203/10 + 192/8 - Outline of each - Results of scripts - Auto emailing and samples - Responses to email * Methods for reclaiming address space - Email - Quarantine - Guranteed swap for PA address space - Future of "no questions asked policy" - Policy discussion - Support needed but from where ? * The future - What to do with relaimed space ? - Re-allocation of space where a "new" subnet is possible. * Where to from here - Scripts, monitoring and mailing list. - Co-ordination - RIR policy and support * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Wed Feb 9 14:56:49 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA116041; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 14:56:49 +1000 (EST) Received: from smtp7.atl.mindspring.net (smtp7.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.128.51]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA116025 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 14:56:46 +1000 (EST) Received: from ix.netcom.com (user-33qscqp.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.51.89]) by smtp7.atl.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA11486; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 23:56:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <38A10D00.9B70F843@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 22:45:21 -0800 From: Jeff Williams Organization: INEGroup Spokesman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win95; U; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: apnic-talk@whois.apnic.net CC: Bruce Campbell Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] a proposal agendum for policy SIG at Korea References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Bruce and all, I thought my comments WERE addressing the topic at hand here. You seem to be indicating otherwise. If so, how so? Your quoting me below does not seem to support what I believe you are espousing.... Please advise further... Thank you! >;) Bruce Campbell wrote: > On Tue, 8 Feb 2000, Jeff Williams wrote: > > [ on a centralised whois registry ] > > jwkcki> > Absolutely. I just have my doubts about whether it would ever be > jwkcki> > agreed upon, never mind deployed ;) > jwkcki> > jwkcki> should be done I believe, for everyone's use for obvious reasons. > jwkcki> I have the code presently, and would share it with APNIC, Ripe, > jwkcki> or ARIN if they agreed to set up a centralized Whois for it's use. > > Currently, the whois code as used by both APNIC and the RIPE NCC supports > mirroring of other databases, and is used by both APNIC and the RIPE NCC > by mirroring certain information of other databases. > > However, to make it easier for anyone reading the archives of this list, > please keep this thread to the original topic, being 'Handling of Personal > Information in the APNIC database'. > > Regards, > > -- > Bruce Campbell +61-7-3367-0490 > Systems Administrator Regional Internet Registry > Asia Pacific Network Information Centre For the Asia Pacific Region > > * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * > * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * Regards, -- Jeffrey A. Williams Spokesman INEGroup (Over 95k members strong!) CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng. Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC. E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com Contact Number: 972-447-1894 Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208 * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Thu Feb 10 04:56:11 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA109523; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 04:56:11 +1000 (EST) Received: from kiwi.globalone.ad.jp ([202.216.40.14]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA109516 for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 04:56:07 +1000 (EST) Received: from tanqueray (equant-204-198-134-143.ipass.com [204.198.134.143]) by kiwi.globalone.ad.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) with ESMTP id DAA84404; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 03:55:43 +0900 (JST) To: jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com Cc: apnic-talk@apnic.net, maem@maem.org Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] a proposal agendum for policy SIG at Korea From: MAEMURA Akinori References: <200002081502.FEJ26279.BFNN@maem.org> <389FEE0B.2EB5B0A2@ix.netcom.com> <200002090155.AJI79980.BNNF@maem.org> <38A0C5F2.12379E42@ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <38A0C5F2.12379E42@ix.netcom.com> Message-Id: <200002100355.EAG17817.NNBF@maem.org> X-Mailer: Winbiff [Version 2.31 beta2] Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 03:55:45 +0900 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Jeff, Thank you for your reply. :| Maemura and all, :| :| MAEMURA Akinori wrote: :| :| > Jeff, :| > :| > Thank you for your comment. :| > :| > My idea is, :| > :| > o Personal postal address and phone# have to be kept :| > at IRs. IRs need to identify the user of the :| > Internet resource. :| :| How are IR's going to guarantee privacy if address info is given? :| Do the IR's have a privacy policy that can meet privacy laws :| in various countries? :| I have no idea if IRs have some policies for the privacy. IRs have to develop their policies for the privacy, and it is the essence of this discussion. :| > :| > :| > o But they must not be exhibited. What to exhibit is :| > the name and some degree of ID info, for example :| > what city he/she lives to tell me out of many :| > MAEMURA Akinori's :-) all around the world or :| > something. ( even though I've never seen another :| > MAEMURA Akinori) :| :| This just will not meet current privacy laws on a global basis. :| Thanks for pointing out. I'll be pleased if you can show me some examples of privacy laws and how my idea won't meet it. :snip: Regards, --maem * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Thu Feb 10 05:09:17 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA110195; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 05:09:16 +1000 (EST) Received: from kiwi.globalone.ad.jp (kiwi.globalone.ad.jp [202.216.40.14]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA110192 for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 05:09:12 +1000 (EST) Received: from tanqueray (equant-208-212-202-87.iPass.COM [208.212.202.87]) by kiwi.globalone.ad.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) with ESMTP id EAA84444; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 04:08:35 +0900 (JST) To: obata@iri.co.jp Cc: jabley@patho.gen.nz, jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com, apnic-talk@apnic.net Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] a proposal agendum for policy SIG at Korea From: MAEMURA Akinori References: <389FEE0B.2EB5B0A2@ix.netcom.com> <200002090155.AJI79980.BNNF@maem.org> <20000209080335.D2158@patho.gen.nz> <200002090842.DEC20342.FNBN@maem.org> <4.2.0.58.J.20000209110300.034f15b0@lily.appgmm.lab.kdd.co.jp> In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.J.20000209110300.034f15b0@lily.appgmm.lab.kdd.co.jp> Message-Id: <200002100408.IDB18974.BNNF@maem.org> X-Mailer: Winbiff [Version 2.31 beta2] Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 04:08:36 +0900 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Obata-san, Thank you for your comment. :| At 08:42 00/02/09 +0900, MAEMURA Akinori wrote: :| >Joe, :| > :| > Thank you for your comment. :| > :| > Yes, I understand phone number is useful. In your case of :| >an expert engineer, it may be useful rather than harmful. :| > :| > :| > My Idea is that, phone numbers is optional. You can get it :| >exhibit or suppressed, and if suppressed, POC by upstream :| >ISP comes to be mandatory. :| :| How do you decide who is the upstream? It is a complicated work to quickly :| find out the responsible upstream. It can be self-defined, I mean, the address holder defines the POC to register it to the whois database. To track the problem with the site you can look up the whois DB and find the tPOC, the upstream ISP's POC of the site. :| What we really need is a way to quickly contact the responsible person. It :| can be either e-mail, phone, fax or any form, which can be chosen by the :| network owner concerned. However, there need to be at least one on a 24 :| hours basis. Otherwise, it is hard to get quick support when a network is :| intentionally, non-intentionally or unknowingly doing harm to other networks. :| Yes, I agree. Let me make sure, do you mean there is no need to exhibit the POC at the DB, Obata-san? :| Yoshi :| --maem * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Thu Feb 10 07:29:26 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA117007; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:29:24 +1000 (EST) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA116997 for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:29:21 +1000 (EST) Received: from ix.netcom.com (user-33qsd6v.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.52.223]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA09438; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 16:29:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <38A1F5A7.E0FF430F@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 15:17:59 -0800 From: Jeff Williams Organization: INEGroup Spokesman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win95; U; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: apnic-talk@apnic.net CC: MAEMURA Akinori Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] a proposal agendum for policy SIG at Korea References: <200002081502.FEJ26279.BFNN@maem.org> <389FEE0B.2EB5B0A2@ix.netcom.com> <200002090155.AJI79980.BNNF@maem.org> <38A0C5F2.12379E42@ix.netcom.com> <200002100355.EAG17817.NNBF@maem.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Maemura and all, MAEMURA Akinori wrote: > Jeff, > > Thank you for your reply. Your welcome! >;) See remainder of my reply below your... > > > :| Maemura and all, > :| > :| MAEMURA Akinori wrote: > :| > :| > Jeff, > :| > > :| > Thank you for your comment. > :| > > :| > My idea is, > :| > > :| > o Personal postal address and phone# have to be kept > :| > at IRs. IRs need to identify the user of the > :| > Internet resource. > :| > :| How are IR's going to guarantee privacy if address info is given? > :| Do the IR's have a privacy policy that can meet privacy laws > :| in various countries? > :| > I have no idea if IRs have some policies for the privacy. > IRs have to develop their policies for the privacy, and it > is the essence of this discussion. Agreed. So until or unless those policies are determined what information should or can be listed must fit those policies and be legal in all jurisdictions. > > > :| > > :| > > :| > o But they must not be exhibited. What to exhibit is > :| > the name and some degree of ID info, for example > :| > what city he/she lives to tell me out of many > :| > MAEMURA Akinori's :-) all around the world or > :| > something. ( even though I've never seen another > :| > MAEMURA Akinori) > :| > :| This just will not meet current privacy laws on a global basis. > :| > Thanks for pointing out. I'll be pleased if you can show me > some examples of privacy laws and how my idea won't meet it. > > :snip: > > Regards, > > --maem Regards, -- Jeffrey A. Williams Spokesman INEGroup (Over 95k members strong!) CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng. Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC. E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com Contact Number: 972-447-1894 Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208 * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Thu Feb 10 10:08:54 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA125072; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:08:54 +1000 (EST) Received: from lily.appgmm.lab.kdd.co.jp (lily.appgmm.lab.kdd.co.jp [202.239.183.1]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA125068 for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:08:51 +1000 (EST) Received: from yoobata-98 ([133.217.59.186]) by lily.appgmm.lab.kdd.co.jp (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2J release 205-101-J ID# 110-49798U100L100S0J) with ESMTP id AAA223; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:08:40 +0900 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.J.20000210075409.03cec240@lily.appgmm.lab.kdd.co.jp> X-Sender: obata@benten.rd.kddnet.ad.jp Reply-To: obata@iri.co.jp X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58.J Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:58:21 +0900 To: MAEMURA Akinori From: Yoshihiro Obata Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] a proposal agendum for policy SIG at Korea Cc: jabley@patho.gen.nz, jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com, apnic-talk@apnic.net In-Reply-To: <200002100408.IDB18974.BNNF@maem.org> References: <4.2.0.58.J.20000209110300.034f15b0@lily.appgmm.lab.kdd.co.jp> <389FEE0B.2EB5B0A2@ix.netcom.com> <200002090155.AJI79980.BNNF@maem.org> <20000209080335.D2158@patho.gen.nz> <200002090842.DEC20342.FNBN@maem.org> <4.2.0.58.J.20000209110300.034f15b0@lily.appgmm.lab.kdd.co.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk At 04:08 00/02/10 +0900, MAEMURA Akinori wrote: >It can be self-defined, I mean, the address holder defines >the POC to register it to the whois database. To track the >problem with the site you can look up the whois DB and find >the tPOC, the upstream ISP's POC of the site. It may be a good idea but maintenance of such data might be difficult without some force. >:| What we really need is a way to quickly contact the responsible >person. It >:| can be either e-mail, phone, fax or any form, which can be chosen by the >:| network owner concerned. However, there need to be at least one on a 24 >:| hours basis. Otherwise, it is hard to get quick support when a network is >:| intentionally, non-intentionally or unknowingly doing harm to other >networks. >:| >Yes, I agree. Let me make sure, do you mean there is no >need to exhibit the POC at the DB, Obata-san? Yes, I think so. However, I think there should be a choice for which media to use. Yoshi * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Thu Feb 10 10:15:12 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA125517; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:15:11 +1000 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA125506; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:15:08 +1000 (EST) Received: from guardian.apnic.net (guardian.apnic.net [203.37.255.100]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA125502 for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:15:07 +1000 (EST) Received: (from mail@localhost) by guardian.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA13002 for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:15:04 +1000 (EST) Received: from hadrian.staff.apnic.net(192.168.1.1) by int-gw.staff.apnic.net via smap (V2.1) id xma012978; Thu, 10 Feb 00 10:14:42 +1000 Received: from wilson (wrk-8.staff.apnic.net [192.168.1.71]) by hadrian.staff.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA21301 for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:11:26 +1000 (EST) From: "Paul Wilson" To: Subject: [apnic-talk] [apnic-announce] ICANN ASO: website and mailing lists Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:11:34 +1000 Message-ID: <000e01bf735b$63aa8140$4701a8c0@wilson.staff.apnic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Reply-To: apnic-talk@apnic.net Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk [Note "reply-to:" field] (with apologies for duplicates) Reminder: ICANN ASO - Website and Discussion Lists This is an announcement to all parties with interests in management of Internet Address space and related resources. The Address Supporting Organisation of ICANN (the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers) was established last year, and has assumed its responsibilities under the ICANN Bylaws for coordination of global policy development in relation to Internet Addresses and related resources. The nine-member Address Council has also been established, in accordance with the ASO MoU and ICANN Bylaws. Since its establishment, the ASO has established mailing lists and a website to ensure that its processes are open and transparent, and accessible to all parties with an interest in Internet resource management issues. Three ASO mailing lists are now available for public access to ASO information, and for input into the ASO process: aso-announce - for announcements and other information relating to the ASO (read only list) aso-policy - for open discussion on policy and other ASO matters (open subscription list) aso-comment - for comment and input of any kind (no subscription necessary) The ASO website is also now available, at http://www.aso.icann.org, and carries information relating to the ASO, Address Council, and policy matters which may be under consideration; as well as complete archives of the above mailing lists. At this time the Address Council is seeking participants in the ASO process, and encourages all interested parties to subscribe to the mailing lists above. For information on how to subscribe, please visit the ASO website. We look forward to your participation! Paul Wilson for the ASO Address Council. ______________________________________________________________________ Paul Wilson, Director-General, APNIC http://www.apnic.net ph/fx +61 7 3367 0490/82 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- See you at APRICOT 2000! 28 Feb - 2 Mar http://www.apricot2000.ne.kr ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * APNIC-ANNOUNCE: Announcements concerning APNIC * * To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe" to apnic-announce-request@apnic.net * * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Thu Feb 10 21:47:43 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA109899; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:47:43 +1000 (EST) Received: from genoa.nct.spin.ad.jp (genoa.nct.Spin.AD.JP [165.76.40.2]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA109893 for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:47:40 +1000 (EST) Received: from rs.nct.spin.ad.jp ([172.17.1.16]) by genoa.nct.spin.ad.jp (8.8.8/3.6W-ATT_WorldNet_MIS(99030116)) id UAA07983; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 20:47:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from rs (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rs.nct.spin.ad.jp (8.9.3/3.7W-99061112) with ESMTP id UAA07179; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 20:46:58 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <200002101146.UAA07179@rs.nct.spin.ad.jp> To: apnic-talk@apnic.net cc: ip-wg@nic.ad.jp Subject: [apnic-talk] a proposal agendum for policy sig at APRICOT From: hiromi@spin.ad.jp Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 20:46:58 +0900 Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Folks, I submitted a proposal agendum for policy SIG at APRICOT 2000, and it has been approved. The abstruct is below. I'd like to have some discussions at the policy SIG and try to share technique and knowledge on the allocation. Please feel free to reply and make comment on this issue on this mailing list. Thanks in advance, ===================================================== Title: A proposal for registry evaluation principles Applicant: Ruri Hiromi, IP working group, JPNIC / JENS corp. - Introduction AS2050 and APNIC policies define how to allocate/assign IP network address to a enterprize by LIR/NIR. However, some kind of view, there seems to be a conflict and inconsistency in real allocation/assignment. - Proposal We shall define several standard principles to share with the LIRs and NIRs. - detail We are proposing the following detailed 5 principles. a. Registries shall not interfere with business issues of the applications, b. Registries shall not regard administrative ease on address assignments, c. Registries shall gather minimum information necessary for evaluation of applications, d. Requesters shall reply to any of the above information requests by all means but they are allowed to ask reasons of the requests by the registries, e. Registries shall evaluate technologies for its procedures with a common standard before adoption, ===================================================== Ruri Hiromi * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Fri Feb 11 00:16:01 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA118573; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:16:01 +1000 (EST) Received: from lint.cisco.com (lint.cisco.com [171.68.224.209]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA118567 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:15:59 +1000 (EST) Received: from pfs-laptop (syd-vpdn-client-24.cisco.com [144.254.145.25]) by lint.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id GAA22979; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 06:15:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000210234410.00a8ba20@lint.cisco.com> X-Sender: philsmit@lint.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:09:16 +1000 To: hiromi@spin.ad.jp From: Philip Smith Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] a proposal agendum for policy sig at APRICOT Cc: apnic-talk@apnic.net, ip-wg@nic.ad.jp In-Reply-To: <200002101146.UAA07179@rs.nct.spin.ad.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Hi, Some comments, inlined, which hopefully will give you food for thought as you prepare your presentation for the Policy SIG... At 20:46 10/02/00 +0900, hiromi@spin.ad.jp wrote: >- Introduction > > AS2050 and APNIC policies define how to allocate/assign IP > network address to a enterprize by LIR/NIR. > However, some kind of view, there seems to be a conflict and > inconsistency in real allocation/assignment. > >- Proposal > > We shall define several standard principles to share with the > LIRs and NIRs. > >- detail > > We are proposing the following detailed 5 principles. > > a. Registries shall not interfere with business > issues of the applications, ....the implication being that the registries are currently interfering with business issues of applicants? If so, I'm sure everyone would be interested in hearing about the particular cases. Asserting this without quoting examples would of course be inappropriate. > b. Registries shall not regard administrative ease > on address assignments, > c. Registries shall gather minimum information > necessary for evaluation of applications, From my experience I think all three RIRs follow both of these. It certainly would be good if the member registries of APNIC also follow this - I'm assuming this is brought up because some don't at the moment? > d. Requesters shall reply to any of the above > information requests by all means but they are > allowed to ask reasons of the requests by the > registries, In my past experience I feel there is always a healthy dialogue between applicants and registries. I guess you are asking both parties to expect there to be dialogue, or? > e. Registries shall evaluate technologies for its > procedures with a common standard before adoption, In my opinion this is impossible. It would mean the registries would have to pre-empt any new technology by having a policy ready before the first deployment anywhere in the world. And if I remember rightly, it tends to be ISPs who evaluate and deploy new technologies. Is the traditional model whereby the ISPs and vendors provide information and feedback broken that you find you have to suggest this alternative approach? BTW, if the three RIRs were require by their membership to embark on this path, they'd have to substantially increase fees to pay for the necessary highly qualified technical staff to carry out the evaluation. Or is there another vehicle for predicting the future and having the policies ready? Hopefully your presentation will clarify the motivation for your 5 principles somewhat. philip -- * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Fri Feb 11 00:21:21 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA118885; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:21:20 +1000 (EST) Received: from lint.cisco.com (lint.cisco.com [171.68.224.209]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA118878 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:21:18 +1000 (EST) Received: from pfs-laptop (syd-vpdn-client-24.cisco.com [144.254.145.25]) by lint.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id GAA25803; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 06:21:07 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000211001009.00a2f520@lint.cisco.com> X-Sender: philsmit@lint.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:20:30 +1000 To: Yoshiyuki Ezura From: Philip Smith Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] [a proposal agendum] simple assignment procedure of length /29 or longer prefix Cc: apnic-talk@apnic.net In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.J.20000209100854.00ca0100@mail.ntt-osd.ocn.ne.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Hi, Some comments, in-lined... At 10:09 09/02/00 +0900, Yoshiyuki Ezura wrote: >--- >Title: Proposal for simple assignment procedure of length /29 or > longer prefix >Applicant: Yoshiyuki Ezura, IP working group, JPNIC > > >- Introduction > >RFC2050 and APNIC's policy define that ISP's customers must exhibit >very precise projection for their one year address usages and the >justifications for it. This rule is even applied to the prefix which >is /29 or /30. > >/29s and /30s are widely used in Japan by personal users now, which >costs too much for both the applicants and Internet Registry. It may >impede the sound growth of the Internet. I'm curious about the "impede the sound growth" comment. How? I don't see the link between address space utilisation for home users and sound growth. The sound growth of the Internet usually refers to the core infrastrucuture of the Internet, not the edge... In what circumstances are personal users using /29s and /30s? Dialup, leased lines, ADSL, Cable? Hopefully your presentation can clarify this... >- Proposal > >We propose a simple procedure in which applicants don't need the >network detail information in the case when a prefix is longer than >/28. It seems to be reasonable since in the case of /29s, three hosts, >for example one gateway router and two hosts on the segment, is >enough to satisfy the RFC2050 criteria. Is this administrative ease? One agenda item from Ruri Hiromi says "b. Registries shall not regard administrative ease on address assignments", so I detect a possible contradiction...? >- Reasons or Advantages > >We at JPNIC held a trial operation from March 1998 until January 2000, >that didn't require the network detail information in the case of when >assigning /29 and longer, to encourage assignment of longer prefixes >and preservation of the IP address space. Now in Japan, 41% of all >assignments is /29 and longer and 87% is /28 and longer. > >We believe that trial operation was successful in address space >preservation and that this contributes a great reduction in resources >needed for address assignment at JPNIC, LIR and personal end-users as well. >* APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * >* To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * Hopefully your presentation at APRICOT will clarify these points... best wishes! philip -- * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Fri Feb 11 20:46:28 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA141894; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 20:46:28 +1000 (EST) Received: from mailGW1.ntt-osd.ocn.ne.jp (mailGW1.ntt-osd.ocn.ne.jp [210.154.107.98]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA141891 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 20:46:26 +1000 (EST) Received: from relay2.ntt-osd.ocn.ne.jp by mailGW1.ntt-osd.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) with ESMTP id TAA28001; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 19:45:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from mail1.ntt-osd.ocn.ne.jp by relay2.ntt-osd.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) with ESMTP id TAA28767; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 19:45:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from ezura by mail1.ntt-osd.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) with ESMTP id TAA13843; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 19:45:13 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.J.20000211012804.00acd2e0@mail.ntt-osd.ocn.ne.jp> X-Sender: ezura@mail.ntt-osd.ocn.ne.jp X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58.J Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 19:46:26 +0900 To: Philip Smith From: Yoshiyuki Ezura Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] [a proposal agendum] simple assignment procedure of length /29 or longer prefix Cc: Yoshiyuki Ezura , apnic-talk@apnic.net, ip-wg@nic.ad.jp In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20000211001009.00a2f520@lint.cisco.com> References: <4.2.0.58.J.20000209100854.00ca0100@mail.ntt-osd.ocn.ne.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Philip, Thank you for your comments. At 00:20 00/02/11 +1000, Philip Smith wrote: >>--- >>Title: Proposal for simple assignment procedure of length /29 or >> longer prefix >>Applicant: Yoshiyuki Ezura, IP working group, JPNIC >> >> >>- Introduction >> >>RFC2050 and APNIC's policy define that ISP's customers must exhibit >>very precise projection for their one year address usages and the >>justifications for it. This rule is even applied to the prefix which >>is /29 or /30. >> >>/29s and /30s are widely used in Japan by personal users now, which >>costs too much for both the applicants and Internet Registry. It may >>impede the sound growth of the Internet. > >I'm curious about the "impede the sound growth" comment. How? I don't see the link between address space utilisation for home users and sound growth. The sound growth of the Internet usually refers to the core infrastrucuture of the Internet, not the edge... ISPs need many costs to evaluate too much assignment, then they may not be able to expand their business. So I think, "impede the sound growth" may occur to the Internet. >In what circumstances are personal users using /29s and /30s? Dialup, leased lines, ADSL, Cable? Hopefully your presentation can clarify this... In Japan, circumstances in which personal users use /29s and /30s are mainly leased lines. Then those are services that is shared bandwidths with more than one user in the ISPs network. However the percentage of ADSL and Cable may rapid increase in the near future. >>- Proposal >> >>We propose a simple procedure in which applicants don't need the >>network detail information in the case when a prefix is longer than >>/28. It seems to be reasonable since in the case of /29s, three hosts, >>for example one gateway router and two hosts on the segment, is >>enough to satisfy the RFC2050 criteria. > >Is this administrative ease? One agenda item from Ruri Hiromi says "b. Registries shall not regard administrative ease on address assignments", so I detect a possible contradiction...? If an address assignment is enough to satisfy the RFC2050 criteria, it is not administrative ease, is it ? Then almost all assignment of /29s may be satisfy the RFC2050 criteria. So I think, this simple assignment procedure is a boundary of administrative ease or not. >>- Reasons or Advantages >> >>We at JPNIC held a trial operation from March 1998 until January 2000, >>that didn't require the network detail information in the case of when >>assigning /29 and longer, to encourage assignment of longer prefixes >>and preservation of the IP address space. Now in Japan, 41% of all >>assignments is /29 and longer and 87% is /28 and longer. >> >>We believe that trial operation was successful in address space >>preservation and that this contributes a great reduction in resources >>needed for address assignment at JPNIC, LIR and personal end-users as well. >>* APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * >>* To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * > >Hopefully your presentation at APRICOT will clarify these points... > >best wishes! > >philip >-- Best Regards, Yoshiyuki Ezura * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Tue Feb 15 18:17:47 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA78885; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 18:17:46 +1000 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA170052; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 18:17:42 +1000 (EST) Received: from guardian.apnic.net (guardian.apnic.net [203.37.255.100]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA78869 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 18:17:40 +1000 (EST) Received: (from mail@localhost) by guardian.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA02996 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 18:17:39 +1000 (EST) Received: from hadrian.staff.apnic.net(192.168.1.1) by int-gw.staff.apnic.net via smap (V2.1) id xma002993; Tue, 15 Feb 00 18:17:29 +1000 Received: from wilson (wrk-8.staff.apnic.net [192.168.1.71]) by hadrian.staff.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA27115 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 18:17:25 +1000 (EST) From: "Paul Wilson" To: Subject: [apnic-talk] [apnic-announce] UPDATE: APNIC Annual Member Meeting March 2000 Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 18:17:26 +1000 Message-ID: <000c01bf778d$17cba7a0$4701a8c0@wilson.staff.apnic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: apnic-talk@apnic.net Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk [Note "reply-to:" field] -------------------------------------------------------------- APNIC Annual Member Meeting March 2000 Update Bulletin 15 February 2000 -------------------------------------------------------------- This email is to update APNIC members on the progress of the Annual Member Meeting plans for 3 March 2000. CONTENTS * Nominations to the APNIC Executive Council closing soon * APNIC Tutorials at APRICOT * APNIC Hostmaster Clinics at APRICOT * APNIC AMM Registrations * APRICOT Registrations (For more details, please visit http://www.apnic.net/amm2000) **************************************************** Reminder: NOMINATIONS TO APNIC EXECUTIVE COUNCIL CLOSING SOON Please note that the Call for Nominations to the APNIC Executive Council (EC) closes on Friday 18 February 2000. In accordance with APNIC's Bylaws, nominations cannot be accepted after this date. Three positions on the EC will be opened for election at the APNIC Members' Meeting on 3 March 2000, in Seoul Korea. These positions are currently held by Che-Hoo Cheng, Toru Takahashi, and Geoff Huston. Please note, nominees do not have to be representatives of APNIC members; however, only APNIC members may make nominations and vote for candidates. Nominations must be made using the online form at http://www.apnic.net/amm2000/ec-nominate.html. If you would like to nominate someone for this important role, or wish to stand for election yourself, please act soon. Full details of the role and duties of EC members and of the nomination process are available at http://www.apnic.net/amm2000/ec2000.html. Finally, please also note that the policy for reimbursement of EC member costs has been amended. Positions on the APNIC Executive Council remain voluntary and APNIC cannot guarantee that it will be able to reimburse EC members for all expenses associated with EC meetings. However, where possible, APNIC will reimburse actual expenses for attendance to APNIC meetings, providing that these fall within budget and cashflow constraints. If you have any questions about the nomination process or the role of the EC, please email . **************************************************** APNIC TUTORIALS AT APRICOT APNIC is pleased to announce that it is sponsoring a number of tutorials at this year's APRICOT conference in Seoul, Korea. APNIC will offer the tutorial "Effective IP Address Management: Asia Pacific Policies and Procedures". In addition, we are fortunate this year to have two guest presenters: Steve Deering from Cisco Systems will give a half day tutorial on IPv6 and Cengiz Alaettinoglu from ISI, will give a half day tutorial on RPSL (Routing Policy Specification Language), Routing Policy, and their application in the day to day operations of ISPs. Registration and full details can be found at the APRICOT web site at http://www.apricot2000.ne.kr. There is no charge to APNIC members for these tutorials. **************************************************** APNIC HOSTMASTER CLINICS AT APRICOT Following the popularity of last year's 'hostmaster clinics', APNIC is pleased to announce that it will host these sessions again at APRICOT2000, giving members the opportunity to speak with APNIC hostmasters in person. Appointments will be required in advance and an on-line booking form will be available later this week. Appointments will also be taken at the APNIC registration desk located next to the APRICOT registration area in the Sheraton Walker Hill Hotel. **************************************************** Reminder: APNIC AMM REGISTRATIONS Members who wish to attend the lunch during the APNIC Annual Member Meeting are asked to register by Monday 21 February, as we are required to provide catering details to the conference venue. You are also reminded that registration for the AMM is free to members and should be made using the online form at http://www.apnic.net/amm2000/registration.html. **************************************************** Reminder: REGISTER SOON FOR APRICOT2000 APNIC members are reminded that Registration for APRICOT2000 is separate from registration for the APNIC Member Meeting. Those members who have not yet registered for APRICOT2000 are encouraged to do so as soon as possible. Please note, pre-conference registration closes midday 25 February (KST). Full details, including an online registration form, are available at http://www.apricot2000.ne.kr/. ******************************************************************** We look forward to seeing you in Seoul! Best wishes, APNIC Secretariat. ______________________________________________________________________ Paul Wilson, Director-General, APNIC http://www.apnic.net ph/fx +61 7 3367 0490/82 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- See you at APRICOT 2000! 28 Feb - 2 Mar http://www.apricot2000.ne.kr ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * APNIC-ANNOUNCE: Announcements concerning APNIC * * To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe" to apnic-announce-request@apnic.net * * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Wed Feb 23 20:37:19 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA166922; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 20:37:18 +1000 (EST) Received: from kiwi.globalone.ad.jp (kiwi.globalone.ad.jp [202.216.40.14]) by whois.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA166919 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 20:37:13 +1000 (EST) Received: from tanqueray (dh59.nic.ad.jp [202.12.30.59]) by kiwi.globalone.ad.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) with ESMTP id TAA19906; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 19:37:08 +0900 (JST) To: apnic-talk@apnic.net Cc: ip-wg@nic.ad.jp Subject: [apnic-talk] APNIC whois changed? From: MAEMURA Akinori Message-Id: <200002231936.IJC37545.BNNF@maem.org> X-Mailer: Winbiff [Version 2.31 beta2] Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 19:36:52 +0900 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Folks, especially APNIC folks, I found that the response of APNIC whois changed recently. When I whois'ed two weeks ago, it could reply inet-num object of JPNIC member's customer's even if the target is a /29 block. But now it replies just only that it is in the range the allocation of JPNIC. I want to make sure if APNIC has changed it to work like above, or the result was just a bug. It matters on my presentation on Private Info Issues at policy SIG in APRICOT. TIA, MAEMURA, IPwg of JPNIC * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net *