From owner-apnic-talk@ns.apnic.net Wed Oct 14 11:17:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by ns.apnic.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id KAA28295; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:23:23 GMT Received: from zinc.singnet.com.sg (zinc.singnet.com.sg [165.21.7.31]) by ns.apnic.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA28285; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:21:58 GMT From: laina@singnet.com.sg Received: from laina (qtas0619.singnet.com.sg [165.21.57.89]) by zinc.singnet.com.sg (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA06230; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 18:11:03 +0800 (SGT) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 98 17:45:13 Subject: [apnic-talk] UNDP/APDIP newsletter To: anr-talk@anr.org, apnic-talk@apnic.net X-PRIORITY: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: Chameleon 5.0, TCP/IP for Windows, NetManage Inc. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-apnic-talk@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT (apologies for duplicates) *Millennium Meeting* OCTOBER 30TH 1998 APDIP has been actively engaged in the organisation of the Millennium Meeting to be held in Seoul on October 30th. APDIP's assignment is to contribute to the success of this important event by assisting in the design and implementation of advanced network and audio-visual systems. In co-operation with Samsung SDS these will include wireless technology, Internet workstations, visual presentations, etc. Real-time Internet broadcast has also been planned. (Web Site at HYPERLINK "http://millennium.apdip.net" http://millennium.apdip.net ) APDIP will also lead a Round Table on Information Technology, which will present a panoramic view of private and public sector interventions, Internet legalities in e-commerce and international transactions, and Information Technology for development. The round table will be held on the afternoon of October 31st and will feature the President of Samsung SDS, ROK; the CEO of Mimos, Dr. Tengku Azzman Malaysia; Ms. Laina Ravendran Greene, formerly of ITU, and Mr. Gabriel Accascina, APDIP. *Internet Routing Technology Workshop* NOVEMBER 23-27, 1998 APDIP in co-operation with CISCO Systems, leading supplier of networking equipment, will host the Internet Routing Technology Workshop in Kuala Lumpur from November 23rd to the 27th. The workshop will cover topics on Networking, Internet Protocol (IP) routing, Top Level Domains (TLDs) and procedures for domain registration. Essentially, it will include hands-on tutorials on routing configurations alongside technical explanations. The workshop is targeted to a technical audience, preferably engineers, from government Telecom and ISPs in our member countries.For more information and availability of seats please contact Ms. Ramita Sharma at ramita@apdip.net *Upcoming Seminar on IT Policies* DECEMBER 16-18, 1998 Thailand APDIP will be conducting in Bangkok an IT Seminar for Data Centre directors in various ministries for the government of Thailand. Seminar dates are yet to be confirmed for the month of December. *Iran* NOVEMBER 11-13, 1998 APDIP has received a request from the government of Iran to conduct a Seminar on IT Policies and Infrastructure Development. The Seminar is scheduled for November 11th to the 13th, 1998. *Regional Server Programme * APDIP has recently received a formal request from the Asian Partnership on International Migration (APIM) for hosting services on the Regional Server Programme (RSP). Ms. Sara Shameen, Co-ordinator, said that the RSP is a good true answer in providing Internet services for APIM. The RSP is a multipurpose host server including web, mail and news services, made available to regional programmes and counterparts. It is fully managed and operated by APDIP in Kuala Lumpur. For more information please contact nik@apdip.net. *IT Seminar* August 19th-22nd –China Sends Delegates APDIP recently conducted an IT Seminar titled "IT Policies and Infrastructure Development" for government officials from China. This four-day Seminar was held from August 19th to the 22nd at the APDIP's training facility in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. The delegation accompanied by Ms. Lena Lindberg, Deputy Resident Representative of UNDP Beijing, comprised of government officials from the Ministries of Science and Technology, Health, Information, Industry, Education, Foreign Trade, Economic Co-operation (MOFTEC) and the Data Communication Technology Research Institute. Prof. Dato' Dr. Anuar Maarof, Deputy Director General of the Malaysian Administration Modernisation and IT Planning Unit (MAMPU), delivered the keynote address on Electronic Government-Towards a Paperless Civil Service. His address was followed by presentations on IT policy making, content creation, legislation, usage, implementation and infrastructure building. The presenters were selected among experts in IT Policies, Infrastructure and Applications Development such as Dato' Dr. Vincent Lowe, IT Advisor -Malaysian Smart School Project on distance education, Prof. Khaw Lake Tee, Senior Manager - Regulations and Cyberlaws Adminstration (MDC) and Rajiv Ramaprasad, Director of WorldcareHealth, among others, spoke on telemedicine. The delegates also visited the Malaysian Institute of Microelectronics Systems (MIMOS) at the Technology Park and the Multimedia Development Corporation (MDC), the developers of the Multimedia Super Corridor (MSC), in Cyberjaya. According to Mr. SunYon-Jian, Deputy Director -Department of Policy and Systems (Ministry of Science and Technology), the Chinese government is looking into improving its IT policies and the delegates intend to bring back the relevant ideas and implement them accordingly in China's IT environment. The Seminar ended with a brainstorming session, which focused on IT plans for the various ministries in China. *Assistance to Laos* APDIP will be assisting the ASEAN Department of the Lao PDR in getting full Internet connectivity and in using effective Internet-based technologies. In response to a request by the UNDP office in Lao PDR, a brief mission to Vientiane was conducted from August 5th to the 7th to follow up on assistance needs for the ASEAN Department and assess the existing state of Internet connectivity in Lao PDR. This initiative will strengthen the ability of the ASEAN Department to operate as the co-ordinating agency for ASEAN affairs in the Lao PDR. Through the use of Internet technologies, it will be better able to liase with counterpart Government agencies in other ASEAN member countries and to communicate with ASEAN focal points in the different line Ministries within the Lao PDR. *Webmaster Training Courses* APDIP will be organising a five-day Webmaster Development Workshop beginning from October 26th to the 30th in Kuala Lumpur. The workshop is targeted to individuals currently performing the duties of Webmasters in UNDP funded programmes or with government counterparts. For more information and availability of seats please contact Ms. Ramita Sharma at HYPERLINK mailto:ramita@apdip.net ramita@apdip.net *Assistance to Pacific Island Countries* A comprehensive package of assistance for Pacific Island Countries is in the process of being finalised with the assistance of the UNDP/Fiji CO and SIDSnet. This package will include the routing workshop, a policy Seminar and IT training. *Programme Endorsements* The Government of Pakistan has recently endorsed the APDIP Programme, adding to the number of countries that have approved the Programme objectives and activities. *New Brochure in Circulation* APDIP has published a new brochure for the programme, which outlines current activities and highlights latest programme updates. To obtain copies, please contact APDIP at info@apdip.net. *New Staff on Board* Following an agreement with the French Cooperation Programme, Mr. Marc Lepage has joined APDIP as our new Information System (IS) Engineer. He was previously with the French Embassy in Malaysia for six months and was responsible for designing web sites for the France-Malaysia Programme. Marc has a Masters Degree in Computer Science, Networks and Information Systems from Nantes University, France. Promoting sustainable human development by improving access to information Asia Pacific Development Information program (APDIP) UNDP Postal address: P.O. Box 12544, 50782 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Tel: (603) 255-9122 Fax (603) 2539740 http://www.apdip.net ------------------------------------- Name: Laina Raveendran Greene E-mail: laina@singnet.com.sg Date: 14/10/98 Time: 17:45:13 This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@ns.apnic.net Fri Oct 16 13:06:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by ns.apnic.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id NAA09048; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 13:03:49 GMT Received: from zinc.singnet.com.sg (zinc.singnet.com.sg [165.21.7.31]) by ns.apnic.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA09044; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 13:03:46 GMT From: laina@singnet.com.sg Received: from laina (qtas0231.singnet.com.sg [165.21.56.101]) by zinc.singnet.com.sg (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA11408; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 21:03:41 +0800 (SGT) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 98 20:55:15 Subject: [apnic-talk] WIPO meeting in TOkyo on the 19th X-PRIORITY: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: Chameleon 5.0, TCP/IP for Windows, NetManage Inc. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-apnic-talk@apnic.net Precedence: bulk This is a quick reminder to everyone interested, that the next WIPO regional consultation on Domain Names and Trademarks, and the creation of dispute resolution mechanism for famous marks, will be held in Tokyo on the 19th October 1998. Check http://wipo2.wipo.int for more details.Do come and let your views be heared and recorded. We need more Internet industry voices to come forward. Regards, Laina RG ------------------------------------- Name: Laina Raveendran Greene E-mail: laina@singnet.com.sg Date: 16/10/98 Time: 20:55:15 This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@ns.apnic.net Sun Oct 18 22:52:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by ns.apnic.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id WAA03157; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 22:50:31 GMT Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by ns.apnic.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA03153 for ; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 22:50:22 GMT Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA29540; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 17:45:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx10-44.ix.netcom.com(207.94.124.108) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma029503; Sun Oct 18 17:44:49 1998 Message-ID: <362A243E.FB447FC0@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 18:24:16 +0100 From: Jeff Williams Organization: IEG. INC. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: list@inet-access.net CC: isp-marketing@isp-marketing.com, IFWP IFWP ORG , Arin Council , ARIN list , APNIC Talk , Domain policy Subject: [apnic-talk] Re: Jon Postel Dead at 55 References: <3.0.5.32.19981018152230.008c5860@mail.Visi.Net> <19981018161327.A6414@Denninger.Net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-apnic-talk@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Karl and all, Karl Denninger wrote: > On Sun, Oct 18, 1998 at 01:16:15PM -0700, Patrick Greenwell wrote: > > On Sun, 18 Oct 1998, 'Doc' Don Taylor wrote: > > > > > http://www.mercurycenter.com/nation/center/postel101898.htm > > > > > > How will this impact the rnet naming organization? Do we have a power void? > > > Does this make for a conspiracy theory? > > > > Questions that will remain unanswered for a bit. A lot of things have been > > occuring in this arena as of late: > > > > 1) There are multiple proposals before the Department of Congress as to > > the structure and leadership of the new organization. When I spoke > > to Ira Magaziner, senior Internet policy advisor to Clinton last week > > he stated that none of the proposals on the table had sufficient > > backing to be given control "as is." > > Yep. > > > 2) Congressional members have launched an investigation into the issues > > surrounding the development of the new organization. > > As well they should. The bylaws and lack of accountability to the public > of the EXISTING organizations, and the fact that these same people were > supposedly behind the new one, should be reason enough for a FULL > congressional investigation. Completely agreed Karl. We have been lobbying congress to do exactlythat. Yes, we have submitted our own proposal for others to comment on and review that provides for an Initial Individual Membership Organization that is is equal for ALL of the stakeholders. This structure or something very very similar to it is our belief the only why in which peace amongst the Stakeholder community can be reached. I hope you and others take the time to review it carefully. >;) To date, we have received a huge amount of comments in support of our proposal thus far. See: http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/domainname/proposals/ineginc/ineginc.htm for further details. > > > > What I imagine is that it will soon become apparent that Dr. Postel has > > not been behind the ICANN proposal for quite some time given his grave > > illness, and we might find out who exactly has been. > > Actually, I don't care who is behind (or was behind) what. Agreed again. We feel the same way. > > > What I care about is the process, its results, and iron-clad guarantees that > the board of these organizations is accountable to the USERS affected by > their policy decisions. Exactly right! And this is the only way in which we will have a healthy and viableInternet for the future. To achieve this there must be an Initial Individual Membership Organization that approves andy and all decisions of significance by majority vote. or proposal provides for this. No other to date does. > > > And yes, that means a right of "impeachment" for the users - not the "ivory > tower elite". Specifically, this means no more self-perpetuating boards, no > single-source control points except where both (1) PROVEN necessary AND (2) > under DIRECT government oversight, and the right of removal of any of the > organiztions and persons by a simple no-confidence vote of the USERS in the > area of the world over which that organization holds sway. Exactly Karl! We agree completely. > > > I note that neither the current/former IANA or any of the so-called address > registries appear to meet that criteria today - nor have any announced their > intent to do so. > > IMHO they all need to go into the recycle bin, and now that the person who > people treated as "God" is facing St. Peter, perhaps an OBJECTIVE look > by the Congress can be undertaken. > > I urge the Congress to do exactly that, and to require STRICT PROOF of any > claims that such machinations as have existed are "necessary" or "proper", > with the default finding to be that such organizations must go and/or lose > their monopoly status. > > -- > -- > Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) http://www.mcs.net/~karl > I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give > up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. > > - > Send 'unsubscribe' in the body to 'list-request@inet-access.net' to leave. > Eat sushi frequently. inet@inet-access.net is the human contact address. Regards, -- Jeffrey A. Williams DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng. Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC. E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@ns.apnic.net Tue Oct 20 16:31:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by ns.apnic.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id QAA08191; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:27:38 GMT Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.1]) by ns.apnic.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA08184 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:27:27 GMT Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA16102; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:22:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx46-44.ix.netcom.com(198.211.44.172) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma016024; Tue Oct 20 11:22:00 1998 Message-ID: <362C6D75.3C194233@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 12:01:11 +0100 From: Jeff Williams Organization: IEG. INC. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: list@ifwp.org CC: Mark Harringtom , Ira Magaziner , Don Heath , "DOMAIN-POLICY@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET" , Berniece Johnson , Arin Council , ARIN list , APNIC Talk Subject: [apnic-talk] Re: [ifwp] the Administration's position References: <54637-14823@lists.interactivehq.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-apnic-talk@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tony and all, Tony Rutkowski wrote: > Today's New York Times Business Section front page > contains an extensive Amy Harmon article on where > the Administration intends to take things. They > made clear that the ICANN articles and bylaws must > be redone to include the ORSC and Boston Working > Group provisions. Since the ORSC material is the > most inclusive, this makes it the de facto new > ICANN draft. We have been informed directly that our structure for and Initial IndividualMembership Organization is also being considered closely as well. We find this to be quite encouraging and beneficial to the Stakeholder community as it provides a good process for oversight, Transparency, and openness. See http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/domainname/proposals/ineginc/ineginc.htm for further details. It is also unlikely that any modification of the bylaws will be implemented or considered until or unless the Congress has some approval of them as well. See http://www.sjmercury.com/breaking/docs/080992.htm For some comments in this regard. > > > It also struck me that Don Heath's remarks in the > article - suggesting the Network Solutions was behind > the Commerce Committee's review - were inappropriate, > although he may have been misquoted. There was > clearly broad concern expressed by a number of parties, > the NTIA process being followed is highly unusual, > and the Commerce Committee is NTIA's oversight committee. Well we expected such comments from Don Heath. His reputation in thisregard is by now well known. He does not have a great propensity for honesty. > > > --tony > > __________________________________________________ > To view the archive of this list, go to: > http://lists.interactivehq.org/scripts/lyris.pl?enter=ifwp > > To receive the digest version instead, send a > blank email to ifwp-digest@lists.interactivehq.org > > To SUBSCRIBE forward this message to: > subscribe-IFWP@lists.interactivehq.org > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, forward this message to: > unsubscribe-ifwp@lists.interactivehq.org > > Problems/suggestions regarding this list? Email andy@interactivehq.org. > ___END____________________________________________ Regards, -- Jeffrey A. Williams DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng. Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC. E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@ns.apnic.net Wed Oct 21 22:45:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by ns.apnic.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id WAA00722; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:40:44 GMT Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.11]) by ns.apnic.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA00709 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:40:35 GMT Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA11193; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 17:35:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx47-17.ix.netcom.com(198.211.44.209) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma011134; Wed Oct 21 17:35:00 1998 Message-ID: <362E1654.65A0A45C@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:13:58 +0100 From: Jeff Williams Organization: IEG. INC. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: list@ifwp.org CC: DNS Policy , Domain policy , Ira Magaziner , Info policy , US commerce department , "rep.e.b.johnson@mail.house.gov" , "mark.harrington@mail.house.gov" , APNIC Talk , Arin Council , ARIN list Subject: [apnic-talk] Re: [ifwp] Re: Barcelona Summary References: <54949-23785@lists.interactivehq.org> <54943-14825@lists.interactivehq.org> <54935-16722@lists.interactivehq.org> <55132-14823@lists.interactivehq.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-apnic-talk@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tony and all, Tony Rutkowski wrote: > Roeland, > > >Do you realize that this would be every SysAdmin on the planet? Basically > >every Unix box has BIND running on it. DNS is NOT that special, or difficult. > > Yes. It was an original premise of ORSC. The ultimate > distributed power holders in this scenario are those who > control named.root I believe that we have already had this debate several times in the past.The Named.root(s) belong to the Internet community as a whole, not any one organization or company. An organization may "Manage" that (those) Named.root(s), but they do not "Own" them. > > > >>>- DNS software providers > > > >There is only ONE, Paul Vixie and the BIND team. > > > > Vixie, Microsoft, Novell, Metainfo,...? They're > one stroke away from the ultimate distributed > power holders. The "Power" they hold is in the software that they have developed.In the Case of BIND, that is public domain Software, so no real power can be inferred there. As to a "Class" of member as it may relate to an SO or the ICANN itself, that discussion has also been pretty much flushed out as well starting at the IFWP Reston Conference and was again repeated in NSI's original Draft as well. Our proposal took from these initiatives those fundamental conclusions. See: http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/domainname/proposals/ineginc/ineginc.htm for further details. > > > There's a case for bundling them together into a > special class of member. And again, classifying members is a not basing true representation of the Stakeholder and User community in an Equal and fair manner which the White Paper requires. Any such precept would be in stark disagreement with the fundamentals of the White Paper on those Grounds alone. > > > --tony > > __________________________________________________ > To view the archive of this list, go to: > http://lists.interactivehq.org/scripts/lyris.pl?enter=ifwp > > To receive the digest version instead, send a > blank email to ifwp-digest@lists.interactivehq.org > > To SUBSCRIBE forward this message to: > subscribe-IFWP@lists.interactivehq.org > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, forward this message to: > unsubscribe-ifwp@lists.interactivehq.org > > Problems/suggestions regarding this list? Email andy@interactivehq.org. > ___END____________________________________________ Regards, -- Jeffrey A. Williams DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng. Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC. E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@ns.apnic.net Wed Oct 21 22:56:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by ns.apnic.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id WAA01191; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:56:07 GMT Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.11]) by ns.apnic.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA01186 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:55:59 GMT Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA12920; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 17:49:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx47-17.ix.netcom.com(198.211.44.209) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma012855; Wed Oct 21 17:49:20 1998 Message-ID: <362E19B2.929AEE87@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:28:20 +0100 From: Jeff Williams Organization: IEG. INC. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: list@ifwp.org CC: Iana Comments , Iana standard addr , Info policy , Ira Magaziner , Domain policy , DNS Policy , US commerce department , "sensen09@mail.house.gov" , "rep.e.b.johnson@mail.house.gov" , "mark.harrington@mail.house.gov" , Karen Kaplan , APNIC Talk , Arin Council , ARIN list Subject: [apnic-talk] Re: [ifwp] Re: Barcelona Summary References: <55145-14823@lists.interactivehq.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-apnic-talk@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter and all, Peter Deutsch wrote: > [ You wrote: ] > > > Ummmmm, Richard. Is that the best way to get your point across on a > > public list? > > I'd go further and suggest it's not *ever* the best way to > get your point across if you are supporting an open > process. Such comments clearly have a chilling effect on > discussion and thus I politely suggest that it's time to > holster your guns and sit back down at the table. There's > still a little work left to do. A little work? I feel that is an understatement. However the comment and/orstatement to use JUST membership dues as the ONLY funding mechanism for the ICANN or the "DNSO" or other SO's is both short sighted and predominantly unfair to the Stakeholder/user community in general. As has been outlined several times on this list there are many other methods for providing for initial and long term funding that does not put all of the cost directly on the Membership in the form of dues. (Please see archives of this list for several of our suggestions). > > > Now, I don't pretend to know what evoked such an emotional > response, so could you please (politely) provide a little > historical perspective on why membership fees should not > be used to fund executive committee expenses. I can't speak for Richard, however as was presented in our proposal andalso stated in comments to this very list by myself and some others Membership Fees can be ONE method of providing for funding executive committee expenses, but certainly not the ONLY or predominant one. > > > I'm starting with the presumption that legitimate excomm > expenses should be paid (and accept the possibility that > you don't support that statement). If you don't, please > indicated why. If you do, please indicate your proposed > funding mechanism. Again I do not speak for Richard, however we have already provided for several alternatives that are a part of the Archives of this list. In addition we have already set up a non revocable perpetual Trust to assist in funding efforts for the Icann and any of the excepted SO's that may become part of the ICANN. > > > - peterd > > . . . > > "Richard J. Sexton" wrote: > > > > > > At 11:36 AM 10/21/98 -0400, Jay Fenello wrote: > > > >The main consensus item we reached here was that membership fees > > > >would fund the DNSO ExComm expenses. > > > > > > Get stuffed. > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Peter Deutsch, (514) 875-8611 (phone) > Bunyip Information Systems Inc. (514) 875-8134 (fax) > http://www.bunyip.com > > "The survey is not designed to permit statistically valid comparisons > with past ones. Still, the tables show some interesting trends." > > - from Dun & Bradstreet's fifth annual > exclusive survey for Marketing magazine > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > __________________________________________________ > To view the archive of this list, go to: > http://lists.interactivehq.org/scripts/lyris.pl?enter=ifwp > > To receive the digest version instead, send a > blank email to ifwp-digest@lists.interactivehq.org > > To SUBSCRIBE forward this message to: > subscribe-IFWP@lists.interactivehq.org > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, forward this message to: > unsubscribe-ifwp@lists.interactivehq.org > > Problems/suggestions regarding this list? Email andy@interactivehq.org. > ___END____________________________________________ Regards, -- Jeffrey A. Williams DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng. Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC. E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@ns.apnic.net Thu Oct 22 23:07:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by ns.apnic.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id XAA08846; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:04:01 GMT Received: from gateway.staff.apnic.net (guardian.apnic.net [203.37.255.100]) by ns.apnic.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA08842 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:03:59 GMT Received: (from mail@localhost) by gateway.staff.apnic.net (8.8.7/SCO5) id JAA05313 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:03:59 +1000 (EST) Received: from hadrian.staff.apnic.net(192.168.1.1) by gateway.staff.apnic.net via smap (V2.1) id xma005311; Fri, 23 Oct 98 09:03:52 +1000 Received: from localhost (sysadm@localhost) by hadrian.staff.apnic.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA01770 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:03:51 GMT Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:03:51 +1000 (EST) From: System Administrator X-Sender: sysadm@hadrian To: apnic-talk@ns.apnic.net Subject: [apnic-talk] Non-member submission from [usdh@mailhub2.ncal.verio.com (steve)] (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-apnic-talk@apnic.net Precedence: bulk ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 21:03:05 GMT > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > To: Ira_C._Magaziner@oa.eop.gov > From: usdh@mailhub2.ncal.verio.com (steve) > Subject: Comments on Dr. Frankel's Wisdom and Advice on Self-Organizing to Manage IANA Treasures > Cc: comments@iana.org, iana@iana.org, jaffer@rosenblum.com, usdh@ccnet.com, ichannel@home.com, tgpage@aol.com, jbpgolf@aol.com, pointer@hinklelaw.com, hongd@slip.net, newcase.atr@usdoj.gov, mark.harrington@mail.house.gov, dnspolicy@ntia.doc.gov, commerce@mail.house.gov, barb1115@prodigy.net, list@ifwp.org, ietf@ietf.org, process@wipo2.wipo.int, DOMAIN-POLICY@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET, rep.e.b.johnson@mail.house.gov, info-policy-notes@essential.org, APNIC-TALK@apnic.net, arin-council@arin.net, naipr@arin.net October 22, 1998 TO: Ira Magaziner Senior Adviser to the President, Policy Development Old Executive Office Building, Room 216 1700 Pennsylvania Avenue Washington, D.C. 20502 CC: Honorable Mr. Pickering, Subcommittee on Basic Research; Hon. Mr. Bliley, House Commerce Committee; Hon. Mr. Daley, National Telecommunications and Information Administration; Hon. E.B. Johnson; Mr. Joe Sims, Attorney, ICANN, & Mr. Schorr, University of Southern California's Information Sciences Institute FROM: Stephen J. Page, Individual Respondee to DNSpolicy@NTIA.DOC.GOV; Participant, Open Root Server Consortium (ORSC), Independent Researcher, Network Systems, Pleasanton, California, US, representing Internet .a(sm)-.z(sm) Name Registry, T: 925-454-8624 email: usdh@ccnet.com, and Developer, the i(r).com(sm) network access, connectivity and content service to the global community of i(r)ndividuals, email: ichannel@home.com RE:Comments on Dr. Frankel's (Law Professor, Boston University) Wisdom and Advice pertaining to the self-organizing process pertaining to scalable network systems design & managing Internet assets (Treasures), October 22, 1998 To Mr. Magaziner, and all interested parties in scalable network systems management design, Dr. Frankel wrote regarding the Self-Organizing process & the creation of ICANN to succeed IANA: Dr. Frankel: In a political environment the emphasis may be on who says and not on what is said. In this case, it is a mistake to assume that we can ignore important principles if they are advocated by "unimportant" people. What is being said may be just as important as, or more important than, who says it. Comment: What is being said IS more important than who is saying it, unless there are circumstances which provide the person who is speaking to have unique experiences which others might not understand otherwise. The major weight of importance should be attributed to the timeliness of content (ideas) which have a proven basis in science and humanities. In the void created by Dr. Postel's death, the timeliness factor is more important now than it was two weeks ago, therefore elevating the importance of the need for structural content (a framework) which lasts. Frankel: Some of the aspirational principles for ICANN are difficult to achieve because none of the organizational models that we have (and we have many) fits exactly the new ICANN. Comment: One organizational model fits, but it has not been traditionally viewed from the lens of a governing institution, although that is the structure which geographical free market-linked governing bodies, which tax a percentage of all economic revenue, tend to move toward, some slower (United States), some faster (Albania's pyramid structure). The organizational model which fits is a multi-level organizational structure, which is a network system design. Frankel: That does not mean that the principles cannot be followed. It means that we must work harder to achieve them. If it fits politically one group to avoid the principle of balance of power and power sharing (because the group believes that it is or will be in control) the group should think again. Control can shift. The group may find itself in a worse position than had it shared power. Comment: In a risk-minimized scalable network system, power should be balanced symmetrically among all participating elements, which is one of the principles in all recognized life forms in nature (symmetry). All potential elements must first be guaranteed the right to exist, if one is to build a system which is able to scale *inclusively*. The issue of control is a moot point in an organizational design which is based upon the proven mathematical principles of the Universal Network Systems Law(c), because such a network system will scale in the future to harmonize with the observable structural framework which governs all network systems. (June 4, 1998 issue Nature) Frankel: Further, the power may shift to organizations that NO ONE WANTS. Comment: In the future, there may be more "power" represented from various language-networks, such as a French-speaking network, German-speaking network, an Albanian-speaking network, each of which may want their own set of top level domains, for their own socio-cultural purposes. In an Internet which has predominantly grown up around an English-speaking paradigm, the challenge to existing empowered institutions posed by an inclusive and scalable network systems policy, is one that needs to be recognized, and dealt with at the outset, which is now. It is a structural challenge. The fact that none of the existing stakeholders may want another language to be represented at the root-server level where domain names map to IP numbers, (because it will dilute their English language-monopoly), should be recognized as a temporary situation due to the infancy of the Internet. If we apply the principles which are present in the U.S. Constitution, which recognize freedom of speech and equality, while recognizing the new mathematically proven fact which recognizes all network systems behave in a predetermined structural way, over time, we can plan for the inevitable from the design point (that's where we are at) foreward, building a framework, which is modeled after the universal network systems framework (see Universal Network Systems Law(c) which exists. Frankel: The internet communities are invited to build an institution--long term-- not a one shot deal. Winning the moment one may lose the eternity. Comment: This is exactly why an asset-trust which protects the language-treasures (domain names) and mathematical treasures (IP numbers), which recognizes the universality of these assets along with the equal right of a domain name or IP number to exist (like net-oxygen). Such a trust will exist in perpetuity, under the watchful eye of the United States government, without operational control. However, the role of the U.S. Government as protector should remain, insuring that the principles of protections, guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, will be applied wherever the assets are used (universally), because of the recently recognized mathematical proof that a mathematical framework exists for all networks, biological, physical, social, etc., and that includes Internet. Frankel: In short, I suggest that rather than back a position with lack of government's power to require compliance with certain principles it may be better to focus on the arguments for the position and the vision for the future. The organization that the United States government graciously invited the Internet communities to create is not and cannot be like the ones that exist today. If the communities are creative, cooperative, and principled they will have pioneered a unique new structure. Comment: The key statement is to "focus on the arguments for the position and the vision for the future". This is exactly what I have attempted to do, to answer the question, "What is the most appropriate structure which guarantees scalability over time," an answer which is dependent upon openness to diverse use of language assets (domain names) and mathematical assets (IP numbers), where non-discriminatory policies (principles of equality) are applied, all of which fit with the framework of the proven mathematical reality which we now know applies to all interconnected network systems (Universal Network Systems Law(c). (June 4, 1998 issue Nature) Stephen J. Page (c) Copyright, 1998. Stephen J. Page. All Rights Reserved. THE AUTHOR: Stephen Page is a network systems researcher, former Regular Army Officer, U.S. Army, a recognized business network architecture designer as a project manager for a DARPA funded Network Architecture grant in 1994, and practicing optometrist. He is 41 years old, resides and practices Northern California, a graduate of University of Santa Clara (bachelor), University of California Berkeley, (doctorate) and Boston University (masters degree in Business Administration). He is a participant in the IFWP as a Virtual Attendee submitting comments via email, as well as a participant with the Open Root Server Consortium (ORSC), representing Internet .a(sm)-.z(sm) Name Registry, a California Corporation. He is also the developer of the i(r).com(sm) network access, connectivity and content service to the global community of individuals, email: ichannel@home.com, T/F: 925-484-0448. * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@ns.apnic.net Mon Oct 26 09:58:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by ns.apnic.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id JAA14308; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 09:54:36 GMT Received: from tirad.herrera.iphil.net (IDENT:root@tirad.herrera.iphil.net [203.176.28.132]) by ns.apnic.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA14302 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 09:54:29 GMT Received: (from map@localhost) by tirad.herrera.iphil.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id RAA24810; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 17:10:48 +0800 Message-ID: <19981026171048.57330@tirad.herrera.iphil.net> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 17:10:48 +0800 From: "miguel a.l. paraz" To: apnic-talk@apnic.net Subject: [apnic-talk] ASN - can we allocate it for customers? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e Sender: owner-apnic-talk@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Hi, Can we allocate an ASN from APNIC for a customer's use? In this case, the customer wants to multihome between us and another provider. -- Miguel A.L. Paraz +63-2-750-2288 CTO, IPhil Communications Network, Inc. www.iphil.net * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@ns.apnic.net Mon Oct 26 10:30:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by ns.apnic.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id KAA15723; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 10:29:46 GMT Received: from kuji.off.connect.com.au (kuji.off.connect.com.au [203.63.69.33]) by ns.apnic.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA15719 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 10:29:44 GMT Received: from connect.com.au (mrp@localhost) by kuji.off.connect.com.au with ESMTP id UAA06826 (8.8.8/IDA-1.6); Mon, 26 Oct 1998 20:56:21 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <199810261026.UAA06826@kuji.off.connect.com.au> To: "miguel a.l. paraz" cc: apnic-talk@apnic.net Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] ASN - can we allocate it for customers? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Oct 1998 17:10:48 +0800." <19981026171048.57330@tirad.herrera.iphil.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <6824.909397578.1@connect.com.au> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 20:56:19 +1030 From: Mark Prior Sender: owner-apnic-talk@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Can we allocate an ASN from APNIC for a customer's use? Yes we do it all the time. Mark. * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@ns.apnic.net Mon Oct 26 11:31:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by ns.apnic.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id LAA17808; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:31:25 GMT Received: from smtp0-alterdial.uu.net (smtp0-alterdial.UU.NET [192.48.96.28]) by ns.apnic.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA17803 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:31:22 GMT Received: from mobile-1.staff.apnic.net by smtp0-alterdial.uu.net with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: 1Cust121.tnt1.ffx1.alter.net [208.252.143.121]) id QQfmti17873; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:31:09 GMT Message-Id: <3.0.32.19981026111201.006bf18c@pop.dial.pipex.com> X-Sender: maxc37@pop.dial.pipex.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:12:28 +0000 To: "miguel a.l. paraz" From: Anne Lord Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] ASN - can we allocate it for customers? Cc: apnic-talk@apnic.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-apnic-talk@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Miguel, It's no problem requesting an AS number from APNIC that will be used by one of your customers to multihome. regards, Anne APNIC Hostmaster -- At 17:10 26/10/98 +0800, you wrote: >Hi, > >Can we allocate an ASN from APNIC for a customer's use? > >In this case, the customer wants to multihome between us and another >provider. > > >-- >Miguel A.L. Paraz +63-2-750-2288 >CTO, IPhil Communications Network, Inc. www.iphil.net > >* APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * >* To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * > > * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@ns.apnic.net Fri Oct 30 04:19:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by ns.apnic.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id EAA27702; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 04:16:46 GMT Received: from zinc.singnet.com.sg (zinc.singnet.com.sg [165.21.7.31]) by ns.apnic.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA27698; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 04:16:41 GMT Received: from mallow.singnet.com.sg (mallow.singnet.com.sg [165.21.1.11]) by zinc.singnet.com.sg (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA28432; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 12:16:38 +0800 (SGT) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 12:16:38 +0800 (SST) From: Laina Raveendran Greene Subject: [apnic-talk] UN Millennium meeting To: apple@apnic.net, apia-members@apia.org, anr-talk@anr.org, apnic-talk@apnic.net Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-apnic-talk@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Just wanted to let you know that the United Nations Millenium meeting discussing issues for the next century is being broadcast onthe Internet at www.millenium.apdip.net There are many Ministers from the region attending, and we just heared the most enlightening speech from the Head og Government of Bhutan. Governmeents are beginning to rethink development not in terms of GDP, but other values of life such as poverty allevaition, happiness of the individual and socity, etc. Very interesting. It goes on to Sunday, November 1st. Watch if you can. Tommorrow from 2-6pm there will be a session discussing IT and Internet issues. REgards, Laina RG * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net * From owner-apnic-talk@ns.apnic.net Fri Oct 30 04:25:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by ns.apnic.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id EAA27931; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 04:25:51 GMT Received: from iron.singnet.com.sg (iron.singnet.com.sg [165.21.7.29]) by ns.apnic.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA27927; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 04:25:47 GMT Received: from mallow.singnet.com.sg (mallow.singnet.com.sg [165.21.1.11]) by iron.singnet.com.sg (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA06741; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 12:25:45 +0800 (SGT) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 12:25:45 +0800 (SST) From: Laina Raveendran Greene Subject: [apnic-talk] Re: UN Millennium meeting To: apple@apnic.net, apia-members@apia.org, anr-talk@anr.org, apnic-talk@apnic.net In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-apnic-talk@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Sorry the website is at www.millennium.apdip.net I left out an "n". BTW, you can participate by asking questions over the Internet. REgards, Laina RG * APNIC-TALK: General APNIC Discussion List * * To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apnic-talk-request@apnic.net *