From owner-apple Tue Dec 2 14:49:45 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id OAA17254 for apple-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:49:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from nostromo.apnic.net (nostromo.apnic.net [202.12.28.233]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with SMTP id OAA17247 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:49:41 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971202140819.031c5674@apnic.net> X-Sender: davidc@apnic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 14:08:19 +0800 To: apple@apnic.net From: BThomas@teleglobe.ca (by way of "David R. Conrad" ) Subject: Computer Law Publication Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk I THOUGHT SOME OF YOU MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN THE PUBLICATION COPIED BELOW. Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 00:59:32 +0200 From: "William S. Galkin" Subject: Int'l Computer Law Observer #1 **PREMIER ISSUE** ================== INTERNATIONAL COMPUTER LAW OBSERVER December, 1997 -- No.1 PLEASE FREELY REDISTRIBUTE THIS ISSUE!!! Welcome to the Premier Issue of the International Computer Law Observer (ICLO). The ICLO is an e-mail report providing monthly coverage of significant legal developments from around the world relating to computers, technology and the Internet. Back issues and a listing of the Editorial Board can be found at http://www.lawcircle.com/observer . The Editor-in-Chief, William S. Galkin, Esq., is located in Ramat Gan, Israel, and can be reached for comments at wgalkin@lawcircle.com . All current subscribers of the Computer Law Observer are included in the distriubution of the ICLO. To subscribe to the International Computer Law Observer, simply send an e-mail message to listserv@maelstrom.stjohns.edu with the words "subscribe lawobserver" (without the quotation marks) typed into the message area. After subscribing, you will receive a message requesting that you confirm your subscription. You will need to reply "ok" (without the quotation marks) to this message to confirm your subscription. To unsubscribe, follow the same procedure, substituting the word "unsubscribe." Countries covered in this report: Australia Austria Belgium Italy Netherlands Philippines South Africa Spain Switzerland United States --- AUSTRALIA --- [BOTTOM LINE] NO COPYRIGHT IN THE WORDS OF A COMPUTER LANGUAGE [WHAT HAPPENED] The Full Federal Court of Australia has ruled that each individual word in a computer program is merely a cipher, that is, a trigger for a set of instructions to be given effect by the computer, and not a computer program in itself. Copyright may subsist in the underlying set of instructions, but not in the trigger word (Powerflex Services Pty Ltd v Data Access Corporation [1997] 490 FCA, 4 June 1997). [WHY IT HAPPENED] Dr David Bennett set out to create a program for use in the creation and manipulation of databases which would be highly compatible with another application development system called Dataflex. Accordingly, both programs were always going to be functionally similar. The program developed by Dr Bennett, PFXplus, intentionally used the same commands, file structure and function keys as those contained in the Dataflex program to perform the same functions so that persons familiar with the Dataflex program would have no difficulty in transferring to PFXplus. Of the 296 words in the DataFlex programming language, 192 of them were used in the Powerflex language in a way which instructed the computer ultimately to perform the same functions. However, the set of instructions expressing each of the words in source or object code was completely different for DataFlex and Powerflex. the central issue of the Powerflex case was whether certain commands used in the DataFlex program could be given copyright protection. If the commands were copyrightable, then use of them as commands in the Powerflex program would constitute an infringement of copyright. [THE SIGNIFICANCE] This case has clarified the essential nature of copyright as it applies to computer software, bringing it more in line with the open systems stance of other countries. It allows Australian software developers to continue to create programs compatible with, or performing similar functions to, products from their competitors without fear of copyright actions. [INFORMATION SOURCES] http://www.gtlaw.com.au/gt/bin/frameup.cgi/gt/pubs/computerprogramscopyright .html [CONTRIBUTING EDITOR] Gilbert & Tobin - Contact: Simon Pollard - e-mail: spollard@gtlaw.com.au --- AUSTRIA --- [BOTTOM LINE] MINISTRY OF FINANCE ACCEPTS INTERNET COSTS AS PARTLY DEDUCTIBLE [WHAT HAPPENED] The Austrian Ministry of Finance published an executive order, dated 30 June 1997 concerning income-tax-law, including various professional expenses. It is of the opinion that the costs to use the Internet will be deductible partly. [WHY IT HAPPENED] The Ministry acknowledges that an increasing number of tax payers ask for the recognition of the costs to use the Internet as professional expenses deductible from the income subject to tax. It is of the opinion that the rules concerning the recognition of literature as professional expenses shall be applied analogously. According to these an employee is able to deduct costs for technical or specialized literature, but not the costs for works of a general interest, like dictionaries, reference books or encyclopedias. Thus general costs, like the fees paid to providers will not be deductible. However, fees for the use in particular caused by the vocation of the user (e.g.-fees for law data bases incurred by lawyers) are deductible. Corresponding telephone fees will be deductible pro rata of the vocational use. If it is impossible to exactly prove this ratio, the tax authorities have to evaluate these costs by way of estimation. [THE SIGNIFICANCE] Although this executive order is not binding vis-`-vis the tax-payer as it only gives internal guidelines for the tax administration, it is likely to be followed by the Administrative Court, eventually ruling on tax questions. As the costs for the access of material of vocational interest are accepted as deductible, it is advisable for the user to state in his tax return in detail which kind of material he accessed. [INFORMATION SOURCE] Oesterreichische Steuerzeitung 1997, 359 [CONTRIBUTING EDITOR] Dorda, Brugger & Jordis - Contact: Winfried Schwarz - e-mail:dbj@aon.at --- BELGIUM --- [BOTTOM LINE] NO PROTECTION FOR COMPANY NAMES vs DOMAIN NAMES [WHAT HAPPENED] In an decision dd. of June 6, 1997, the President of the Commerce Court of Brussels ruled that a company called Capricom Inc. could not be deprived from its rights on a domain name registered with NSI even if such domain name deliberately included a third party's company name (in this case, a well known Belgian company called Tractebel). [WHY IT HAPPENED] The judge considered that, under Belgian law: - there is no specific protection for commercial names since art. 8 of the Paris Union Convention is not directly applicable in Belgium; - the protection granted to company names pursuant to the Belgian Coordinated Act on Commercial Companies does only apply to use of a company name for designating another company; - the registration of a third party's company name as a domain name is to be considered as a "business opportunity" and does not fall within the scope of the Belgian Unfair Commercial Practices Act. [THE SIGNIFICANCE] This decision illustrates the difficulty for some jurisdictions to deal with the whole issue of domain names. Since the claimant lodged an appeal against the quoted decision, more details will be given in the future. [INFORMATION SOURCE] Non-profit organization Droit et Technologies, http://www.lexnet.be/Droit-Technologies/actualites300897.html#_Toc397854339 [CONTRIBUTING EDITOR] Baker & McKenzie - Contact: Daniel Fesler - e-mail: daniel.fesler@bakernet.com --- ITALY --- [BOTTOM LINE] ITALIAN REGULATORY AUTHORITY FOR THE STOCK MARKET AUTHORIZES TECHNICAL ANALYSIS VIA INTERNET [WHAT HAPPENED] Answering a precise query that had been put to it, the CONSOB (Commissione Nazionale per le Societ` e la Borsa) made the ruling that the broadcasting of a service via Internet offering technical analysis of financial markets to subscribers does not require authorization. [WHY IT HAPPENED] Daily access to the viewing of charts indicating the performance of indices and financial instruments, accompanied by brief comments of technical type, such as overbought contract or resistance at a price of x, is, in fact, freely permitted. Article 66, section 2, sub-section b) of Legislative Decree 415/96 (code Eurosim) did in fact explicitly repeal article 25 of Law 1/1991, according to which the announcement and marketing of services made possible by computer or video devices required authorization by the CONSOB. In the present situation, despite encouraging signs of change, consultancy on financial investment appears to be the only service of financial type to be recognized by CONSOB even when it is made available via Internet. [THE SIGNIFICANCE] Legislation in Italy is therefore far behind that in the United States, which, for instance, allows companies to advertise a public stock offer on Internet without the assistance of intermediaries and with very simple procedures, with brokers on line ready to take orders from investors, putting them directly in touch with markets. [INFORMATION SOURCES] CONSOB communication No. DAL/RM/97004888 dated 3 June 1997 (in French) [CONTRIBUTING EDITOR] University of Pisa, Umberto Placanica. Contact: Professor Antonio Martino - e-mail: martino@dsp.unipi.it --- NETHERLANDS --- [BOTTOM LINE] SHRINK-WRAP LICENCES HELD INVALID [WHAT HAPPENED] In a recently published decision, the District Court of Amsterdam ruled on the validity under Dutch law of a shrink-wrap licence agreement. [WHY IT HAPPENED] A shrink-wrap licence is a set of terms and conditions used by the producer/copyright holder of software, which are included in the package containing the diskettes with mostly standard software. The idea is that the end user is bound by these licensing conditions the moment he opens the package. The Amsterdam court held, however, that the mere unwrapping of the cover does not in itself lead to an agreement being concluded between the end user and the producer/copyright owner. In order to reach agreement, the end user must be made aware, prior to buying the software, that he is entering into a licence agreement this way. He must also know what the conditions of such agreement are beforehand. (Amsterdam District Court, 24 May 1995, Computerrecht 1997/2). [THE SIGNIFICANCE] The form in which shrink-wrap licences are generally used, does not as a rule comply with the above provisions. These licences are thus not enforceable. Under Dutch copyright law, the lawful acquirer of the software automatically obtains the right to use the software, and this right cannot be taken away from him. Therefore, he has no need for an explicit licence from the producer/copyright owner. If the producer/copyright owner nevertheless wants to enforce his conditions, he should make sure that the above requirements set out by the court are complied with. By obliging the retailers not to sell to end users who do not agree to the conditions of the licence, the producer/copyright owner will have even more certainty. [CONTRIBUTING EDITOR] Nauta Dutilh [ http://www.nautadutilh ] - Contact:Ruprecht Hermans - e-mail: hermanr@ams.nautadutilh.nl --- PHILIPPINES --- [BOTTOM LINE] NTC ISSUES LICENSE TO BELLTEL [WHAT HAPPENED] After three years, the National Telecommunications Commission (NTC) yesterday finally granted a provisional authority (PA) to Bell Telecommunication Phils., Inc. (BellTel) to operate in some areas in Metro Manila, special economic zones and autonomous regions. [WHY IT HAPPENED] In a 15 page order signed by Deputy Commissioners Fidelo Q. Dumlao and Consuelo S. Perez, NTC noted that despite the on-going rollout plan of the government, there are still 212 municipali- ties remaining to be unserved, and that a new player is needed to fill up the gap in these areas. Thus, BellTel was granted a license to operate an international gateway facility (IGF), inter-exchange carrier facility and local exchange service in Metro Manila areas, ecozones and autonomous regions nationwide. NTC Chief Simeon L. Kintanar, who was the proponent of the service area scheme (SAS) which is now implemented under the government's Basic Telephone Program, issued a dissenting opinion. He cited the three reasons for dismissing BellTel's application--- the application is contrary to law and the government's policy on telecommunications; it is totally unsupported by the evidence presented or available to the Commission; and it constitutes an undue and unwarranted preference in favor of the applicant in the case, in violation to existing laws. However, the order noted the Commission felt that the timeliness of the present application jibes with the policies provided under Republic Act 7925 and Executive Order 109 mandating the provisioning of basic telephone services to unserved and underserved areas. In Metro Manila, BellTel was authorized to operate in the cities of Muntinlupa, Las Pinas, Pasig, Mandaluyong, Makati, Pasay and municipalities of Paranaque, Pateros, Taguig, Marikina, and San Juan. The areas given to BellTel is seen to conflict with the service areas given to GLOBE Telecom and Smart Communications Inc. GLOBE Telecom is assigned to install telephone lines in Makati, Mandaluyong, San Juan, Pasig, and Marikina; while Smart is assigned Las Pinas, Muntinlupa, Paranaque, Pasay City, Pateros and Taguig. [THE SIGNIFICANCE] GLOBE and Smart are among the staunch oppositor to BellTel's entry as a third player in the industry, along with other carriers Capitol Wireless Inc. (CAPWIRE), International Communications Corp. (ICC), Isla Communications Co. Inc., Pilipino Telephone Corp. (PILTEL), Philippine Long Distance Telephone Co. (PLDT), Philippine Telegraph and Telephone Corp. (PT&T) and Radio Communications of the Phils. Inc. (RCPI) among others. The application of BellTel has provided for a three-tiered implementation schedule within a span of 10 years. Phase I will be implemented in 3 years; second phase in 4 years; and the third phase in 3 years. Under the first phase, BellTel is required to install a total of 888,500 telephone lines, up to 2.6 million lines by the end of the tenth year. Its plant locations are expected to be established in all parts of the country and these plants range from satellite stations to microwave stations and cell stations. Meanwhile, GLOBE and Smart officials said they would contest the NTC decision to the Court of Appeals, noting that the grant of the PA goes against the government-mandated service area scheme, which was now assigned to 1 players, each operating in a limited area. [INFORMATION SOURCE] MMV of Manila Bulletin, Thurs., Oct. 30, 1997 [CONTRIBUTING EDITOR] University of the Philippines Law Center - Contact: Leo B. Malagar - e-mail: iils@nicole.upd.edu.ph --- SOUTH AFRICA --- [BOTTOM LINE] COURT GIVES NO SANCTION FOR ONLINE GAMBLING [WHAT HAPPENED] Johannesburg, Gauteng Province, South Africa - In South Africa's first Internet related judgment, the Witwatersrand division of the High Court of South Africa ruled in late October 1997 that it would not sanction online gambling in its jurisdiction [Ruben Olivier v The Minister of Safety and Security and the MEC for Safety and Security of the Province of Gauteng] [WHY IT HAPPENED] The cyber cafe had brought an application to court for the return of certain computer equipment comprising of a number of networked personal computers, the network server and certain peripherals following on the search of the cafe's premises and the seizure of the computer equipment. In refusing the application, the Court held that it was lawful for the South African Police to impound computer equipment owned by a cyber cafe, which was allegedly being used for online gambling. In terms of existing legislation, Internet gambling is illegal and the owner of the site is in contravention of national and provincial Gambling Acts, where they exist. [THE SIGNIFICANCE] Many experts have indicated that this case is indicative of the controversy and complexity surrounding the issue of regulating Internet related transactions. Local gambling experts argue that the proliferation of online gambling threatens to undermine the development of a legal casino industry in South Africa at a time when companies are vying with one another for casino licenses. Many such companies are investing billions of rands in setting up in infrastructure development, but are threatened with competition from Internet gambling site operators who can set up shop online with ease. [INFORMATION SOURCES] Cape Times Newspaper, 27 October 1997 edition 2.) Michael Silber - Werksmans attorneys [CONTRIBUTING EDITOR] Hofmeyr Herbstein Gihwala, Inc. - Contact: Lance Michalson - e-mail: lbm@hofmeyr.co.za --- SPAIN --- [BOTTOM LINE] SPANISH GOVERNMENT LIBERALISES THE NATIONAL INTRANET SERVICE [BOTTOM LINE] Spanish Government decided at the beginning of September 1997 to liberalize the Infovia service, a national intranet which also allows telecom providers to communicate their subscribers with any of the 300 Internet Service Providers (ISP) based in Spain. The Infovia service, so far a monopoly of telecom company Telefonica, has been a big success as it allows any telephone subscriber to connect to the Internet at the same rate in any point of the country. ISP's have been also favored as they do not need to establish local access points in every Spanish city. Internet users in Spain can access their ISP by simply dialing 055 at the cost of a local call in any point of the country. Once liberalized, Telefonica will not be required any more to offer a universal Infovia service, and will be able to establish different rates depending on the place where the Internet user is located. [WHY IT HAPPENED] The first competitor of Telefonica in this service will be Retevision, the second telecom operator in Spain in which Telecom Italia holds a 20% stake. Telecom operator Euskaltel, owned by the Basque regional Government, is also preparing a similar project which will also have a Basque Intranet as its main attraction. [THE SIGNIFICANCE] Data telecommunications were liberalized in Spain in 1992, which allows ISPs based in Spain to lease lines with any of the major operators, mainly Telefonica, BT Telecomunicaciones, Sprint and Uunet. The Infovia service was considered similar to voice communications and was a monopoly of Telefonica. BT had threatened last year to go to court because of what it considered an unfair discrimination. [CONTRIBUTING EDITOR] Contact: Jose Antonio del Moral - e-mail: berrinet@bigfoot.com --- SWITZERLAND --- [BOTTOM LINE] NEW TELECOMMUNICATIONS LAW TO TAKE EFFECT JANUARY 1, 1998 [WHAT HAPPENED]The Swiss Federal Council decided that the new Telecommunications Law (LTC2) of April 30, 1997 (http://www.admin.ch/bakom/tc/fmg2/e/fmg2_30.4.97.htm), will enter into force on January 1, 1998. In addition, it enacted a packet of five new ordinances to the LTC2. According to article one, the aim of the law is to ensure that a range of cost-effective, high quality and nationally and internationally competitive telecommunications services is available to private individuals and the business community. Furthermore, it shall in particular ensure that a reliable universal service is provided, at affordable prices, for all sections of the population in all parts of the country and allow effective competition in the provision of telecommunications services. Among other things the LTC2 contains rules concerning - Licence and notification requirements (article 4 et seq.), - Interconnection (article 11), - Universal service (chapter 2 section 2) - Radiocommunications (chapter 3), - Addressing resources (chapter 4), - a new Federal Communications Commission (chapter 10). [WHY IT HAPPENED]The Federal telecommunications undertaking is required to provide the universal service within the meaning of Article 16(1) over the whole national territory for five years from the entry into force of this Law. [THE SIGNIFICANCE] The new law represents a major step towards the liberalization of the Swiss telecommunications market. It will enter into force simultaneous with the new regulations of the European Union and will bring in line the Swiss law with the provisions of the WTO. [INFORMATION SOURCES] See http://www.admin.ch/bakom (Federal Office for communications) for further details. [CONTRIBUTING EDITOR] - Contact: Fridolin M.R. Walther - e-mail: fridolin.walther@yale.edu - http://www.cx.unibe.ch/civpro./short.html. --- UNITED STATES--- [BOTTOM LINE] SUN MICROSYSTEMS FILED SUIT ALLEGING MICROSOFT MISUSING JAVA [WHAT HAPPENED] Sun Microsystems filed suit on October 7 against Microsoft alleging that Microsoft is misusing Sun's Java programming language and execution environment. Sun alleged breach of contract, trademark infringement, false advertising, and unfair competition and is asking for injunctions and $35 million in damages. (Sun Microsystems, Inc. v. Microsoft Corporation, DC NDCA No. C-97-20884 PVT). [WHY IT HAPPENED] Sun alleges that, among other license violations, Microsoft's Internet Explorer 4.0 ("IE")contains modifications of Sun's application programming interfaces ("API's") in the Java Class Libraries that render programs written by third parties for the Java API's in IE inoperable on any non-Microsoft platform. This undermines Sun's "write once, read anywhere" commitment for Java. Sun's Java technology license requires channel partners to confirm the compatibility of their Java programs with Sun's Java by running Sun's test suite and also to implement Sun's Java virtual machine (a software layer that runs on top of the user's operating system and that interprets Java "applets"). Sun claims that while all channel partners, including Microsoft, agreed to these terms, Microsoft's IE version of Java fails the test suite and Microsoft did not include in IE several key elements of the Java virtual machine. [THE SIGNIFICANCE] If Java becomes a true 'lingua franca' language as Sun intends, it will severely reduce Microsoft's hold on key software market segments and make it much harder for Microsoft to achieve dominance in the business systems and applications markets. However, if Microsoft can create an alternative version of Java, it would reduce Java's significance as an application platform and even eliminate Sun's proprietary version. Sun claims that the purpose of the suit is only to "bring Microsoft into compliance." For now, IE 4.0 is still being distributed with the Microsoft version of Java. It is interesting to read the licenses and imagine what the parties were thinking during negotiations. [INFORMATION SOURCES] For Sun's amended complaint, the Sun-Microsoft Technology License and Distribution Agreement, and the Sun-Microsoft Trademark License for Java Compatible Logo: www.java.sun.com/aboutjava/info/complaint.html For Microsoft's answer to Sun's complaint: www.microsoft.com/corpinfo/java/java2.htm For other statements, see the above as well as: www.sun.com/announcement/legal.html [CONTRIBUTING EDITOR] Chadbourne & Park - - Contact: Barry Nemmers- e-mail:barry.nemmers@chadbourne.com . ********************************** Brownlee Thomas, PhD Associate Director CRS Corporate Development & Business Intelligence Teleglobe Inc. Tel: 514-868-7774 (direct) Fx: 514-868-7244 e-mail: bthomas@teleglobe.com ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-apple Thu Dec 4 23:28:46 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id XAA14707 for apple-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:28:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from zinc.singnet.com.sg (zinc.singnet.com.sg [165.21.7.31]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id XAA14700 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:28:42 +0900 (JST) From: laina@singnet.com.sg Received: from isjfvzjl (ts900-3918.singnet.com.sg [165.21.153.70]) by zinc.singnet.com.sg (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA05855 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:31:47 +0800 (SGT) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 97 22:31:56 Subject: FW: Commerce Secretary Daley on E-commerce To: apple@apnic.net X-PRIORITY: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: Chameleon 5.0, TCP/IP for Windows, NetManage Inc. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=iso-8859-1 Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Here is some useful information regarding electronic commerce and the APEC agenda. Laina RG --- On Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:16:22 -0500 "Ashley, Charlie H(MSMAIL)" > Subject: Commerce Secretary Daley on E-commerce > > 11/24/97 > TEXT: DALEY 11/22 REMARKS TO THE APEC MINISTERS > (Electronic commerce most important cooperation issue) > > Vancouver, British Columbia -- On no issue is cooperation more > important than electronic commerce, according to Secretary of Commerce > William Daley. > > In remarks to the ninth annual meeting of ministers from the 18 > economies that make up the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) > forum November 22, Daley said: "I am pleased that the Ministers' > Statement will call for a work plan on electronic commerce. This > effort should include an understanding of a tariff-free environment on > the Internet; continuing work on electronic authentication; and > consultation with the OECD on tax issues. This plan should emphasize > the importance of private sector leadership on electronic > authentication, privacy, content, and technical standards." > > "I can't emphasize strongly enough how important this effort is to the > continued growth of the APEC economies," Daley said. "The time is now > to harness the power of information technology and build a global > electronic marketplace that will increase efficiency, reduce the need > for capital, and cut costs for businesses and consumers alike. We > must not delay." > > Following is the official text of Daley's remarks to the APEC > Ministers, as prepared for delivery: > > (begin text) > > Intervention on Electronic Commerce by > U.S. Secretary of Commerce William M. Daley > APEC Ministerial in Vancouver, Canada > > Saturday, November 22, 1997 > > Mr. Chairman, I would like to join my colleagues in underscoring the > importance of Economic and Technical Cooperation activities to the > diverse economies of the Asia-Pacific region. On no issue, perhaps, > is cooperation more important than electronic commerce. > > The growth of information technology is staggering. In Asia, Internet > hosts have more than quintupled during the last two years. It only > makes sense that this medium will revolutionize the way we do > business. This year, in the U.S. alone, the value of goods and > services traded between companies will grow to &8 billion, up 1000% > from 1996. By 2002, it is estimated that more than $300 billion will > be spent on these business-to-business transactions. > > As our Australian colleague indicated yesterday, smaller, isolated > firms may gain the most from the "anytime, anywhere" nature of > electronic networks. The Internet can place even the smallest, newest > firms before customers all over the world and within arms' reach of > potential business partners, a fact which should appeal to all APEC > economies, especially those with a strong entrepreneurial spirit. > > Creating an environment that allows electronic commerce to flourish > will make it a major force for economic growth for APEC economies in > the 21st century. > > We should make clear to our business communities that we support the > globalization of electronic commerce and the avoidance of barriers > that impede its growth. We can do so by committing to some basic > guiding principles. > > First, the private sector should lead. Governments should refrain > from imposing undue regulation and legislation, while supporting a > predictable, consistent, and simple legal environment. > > Also, the marketplace -- not governments -- should determine technical > standards. We should redouble support for private sector-led efforts > on a common approach to electronic authentication, an approach that > would allow a full range of commercial options and discourage the > imposition of bureaucratic structures. We must also strike the proper > balance between privacy rights and the common interest in a free flow > of information. > > Of course, electronic commerce will only be as successful as the > information infrastructure that supports it. APEC must take the lead > in encouraging member nations to adopt telecommunications policies > that foster private investment. > > I am pleased that the Ministers' Statement will call for a work plan > on electronic commerce. This effort should include an understanding > of a tariff-free environment on the Internet; continuing work on > electronic authentication; and consultation with the OECD on tax > issues. This plan should emphasize the importance of private sector > leadership on electronic authentication, privacy, content, and > technical standards. > > I can't emphasize strongly enough how important this effort is to the > continued growth of the APEC economies. The time is now to harness > the power of information technology and build a global electronic > marketplace that will increase efficiency, reduce the need for > capital, and cut costs for businesses and consumers alike. We must > not delay. > > (end text) > > ----------------------------------------------------- > Compliments of: > > Chuck Ashley > Economic Officer > U.S. Embassy Singapore > > Tel: (65) 476-9470 > Fax: (65) 476-9389 > > E-mail: ashleych@singawpoa.us-state.gov > > U.S. Embassy Singapore website: http://home.pacific.net.sg/~amemb/ > U.S. Department of State website: http://www.state.gov > -----------------End of Original Message----------------- ------------------------------------- Name: Laina Raveendran Greene E-mail: laina@singnet.com.sg Date: 12/4/97 Time: 10:31:56 PM This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-apple Thu Dec 4 23:29:30 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id XAA14720 for apple-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:29:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from zinc.singnet.com.sg (zinc.singnet.com.sg [165.21.7.31]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id XAA14715 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:29:26 +0900 (JST) From: laina@singnet.com.sg Received: from isjfvzjl (ts900-3918.singnet.com.sg [165.21.153.70]) by zinc.singnet.com.sg (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA05959 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:32:33 +0800 (SGT) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 97 22:34:19 Subject: FW: Electronic commerce in APEC To: apple@apnic.net X-PRIORITY: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: Chameleon 5.0, TCP/IP for Windows, NetManage Inc. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk --- On Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:18:56 -0500 "Ashley, Charlie H(MSMAIL)" wrote: The following is a section of the text of the APEC Leaders Declaration, which addresses the issue of electronic commerce: "Connecting electronically: We agree that electronic commerce is one of the most important technological breakthroughs of this decade. We direct ministers to undertake a work program on electronic commerce in the region, taking into account relevant activities of other international fora, and to report to us in Kuala Lumpur. This initiative should recognize the leading role of the business sector and promote a predictable and consistent legal and regulatory environment that enables all APEC economies to reap the benefits of electronic commerce. " ------------------------------------------------- With compliments: Chuck Ashley Economic Officer U.S. Embassy Singapore Tel: (65) 476-9470 Fax: (65) 476-9389 E-mail: ashleych@singawpoa.us-state.gov U.S. Embassy Singapore website: http://home.pacific.net.sg/~amemb/ U.S. Department of State website: http://www.state.gov -----------------End of Original Message----------------- ------------------------------------- Name: Laina Raveendran Greene E-mail: laina@singnet.com.sg Date: 12/4/97 Time: 10:34:19 PM This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-apple Fri Dec 5 10:35:39 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id KAA19351 for apple-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:35:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from geocities.com (mail2.geocities.com [209.1.224.30]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id KAA19345 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:35:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from yapcs-r2 (yapcs-r2.iscs.nus.sg [137.132.85.230]) by geocities.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA00523 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:38:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34875ABC.7B876FEF@geocities.com> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 09:37:00 +0800 From: "Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim" Organization: VLSM-TJT X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.30 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: MILIS APPLE Subject: The Asia Pacific Region ... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Surprise; there are too many "organizations" however too less activities in this region. There exists in alphabetical order: - AIM http://www.aim.apic.net/ - APNIC http://www.apnic.net - APIA http://www.apia.org - APNG http://www.apng.org - APPLe ftp://ftp.apnic.net/mailing-lists/apple/ - APRICOT http://www.apricot.net - GETIT http://www.getit.org They may be not "compatible" to each other (in whatever sense). However, it would be nice if an alliance is established among them. The bottom line will be more efficiency (and perhaps more effectively). As an example: why is APNIC located in a very expensive region but has to be funded by not so wealthy countries? Perhaps APNIC's activity can be outsourced to GetIT :-) ? Well, that was my 100 rupiahs (after devaluation) babble ... -- Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim - CEO VLSM-TJT - http://www.tjt.or.id/rms46 -------- Nobody beats MIDAS ? Nobody ? --------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-apple Mon Dec 8 12:08:39 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id MAA17910 for apple-outgoing; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 12:08:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from mail.ksc.net.th (charm@mail.ksc.net.th [203.155.35.1]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id MAA17905 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 12:08:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (charm@localhost) by mail.ksc.net.th (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA02942; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 10:10:19 +0700 (ICT) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 10:10:18 +0700 (ICT) From: "Prof.Dr. Srisakdi Charmonman" To: "Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim" cc: MILIS APPLE , kanokwan@ksc.net.th, jittin@ksc.au.ac.th Subject: Re: The Asia Pacific Region ... In-Reply-To: <34875ABC.7B876FEF@geocities.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Hi, There are also another set of organizations in the region, namely the various country chapters of the Internet Society. For example, Internet Society Thailand may me found at www.isoc-th.org which is active with manay activities such as: - Monthly seminars - Drafting of the Internet Law in Thailand (currently under public hearings and will be submitted to the Ministry of Communications at the end of January 1998). - Plan to draft another two laws: Computer Security Law and Computer Privacy Law. - Publication of the International Journal of Computer and Engineering Management in English - Publication of Internet Journal (in Thai) - Publication of a column "Internet IT" in a local newspaper every Saturday (circulation about 800,000 per day) - Radio program "Internet IT Talk" every Saturday 8:00 - 9:30 am local time on Radio Thailand FM 97 with life broadcast over the Internet thru www.thaicast.ksc.net (must view with IE 4.0) - etc. Regards, Srisakdi On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim wrote: > Surprise; there are too many "organizations" however > too less activities in this region. There exists in > alphabetical order: > > - AIM http://www.aim.apic.net/ > - APNIC http://www.apnic.net > - APIA http://www.apia.org > - APNG http://www.apng.org > - APPLe ftp://ftp.apnic.net/mailing-lists/apple/ > - APRICOT http://www.apricot.net > - GETIT http://www.getit.org > > They may be not "compatible" to each other (in whatever > sense). However, it would be nice if an alliance is > established among them. The bottom line will be more > efficiency (and perhaps more effectively). > > As an example: why is APNIC located in a very expensive > region but has to be funded by not so wealthy countries? > Perhaps APNIC's activity can be outsourced to GetIT :-) ? > > Well, that was my 100 rupiahs (after devaluation) babble ... > > > -- > Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim - CEO VLSM-TJT - http://www.tjt.or.id/rms46 > -------- Nobody beats MIDAS ? Nobody ? --------------------------- > ___________________________________________________________________________ > | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | > | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-apple Mon Dec 8 13:18:18 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id NAA18203 for apple-outgoing; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:18:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from tigereye.hknet.com (tigereye.hknet.com [202.67.240.229]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id NAA18195 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:18:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from mok.hknet.com (pc018.hknet.com [202.67.246.18]) by tigereye.hknet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA21934 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 12:23:09 +0800 (HKT) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 12:23:09 +0800 (HKT) Message-Id: <199712080423.MAA21934@tigereye.hknet.com> X-Sender: mok@pop3.hknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: apple@apnic.net From: Charles Mok Subject: Re: The Asia Pacific Region ... Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk While everybody talks about these Asian organizations, here's another one that is more commercially oriented: AISA (Asia Internet Service Alliance) at www.aisa.org At 10:10 AM 12/8/97 +0700, you wrote: >Hi, > >There are also another set of organizations in the region, namely the >various country chapters of the Internet Society. For example, Internet >Society Thailand may me found at www.isoc-th.org which is active with >manay activities such as: > >- Monthly seminars >- Drafting of the Internet Law in Thailand (currently under public > hearings and will be submitted to the Ministry of Communications at the > end of January 1998). >- Plan to draft another two laws: Computer Security Law and Computer > Privacy Law. >- Publication of the International Journal of Computer and Engineering > Management in English >- Publication of Internet Journal (in Thai) >- Publication of a column "Internet IT" in a local newspaper every > Saturday (circulation about 800,000 per day) >- Radio program "Internet IT Talk" every Saturday 8:00 - 9:30 am local > time on Radio Thailand FM 97 with life broadcast over the Internet thru > www.thaicast.ksc.net (must view with IE 4.0) >- etc. > >Regards, >Srisakdi > >On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim wrote: > >> Surprise; there are too many "organizations" however >> too less activities in this region. There exists in >> alphabetical order: >> >> - AIM http://www.aim.apic.net/ >> - APNIC http://www.apnic.net >> - APIA http://www.apia.org >> - APNG http://www.apng.org >> - APPLe ftp://ftp.apnic.net/mailing-lists/apple/ >> - APRICOT http://www.apricot.net >> - GETIT http://www.getit.org >> >> They may be not "compatible" to each other (in whatever >> sense). However, it would be nice if an alliance is >> established among them. The bottom line will be more >> efficiency (and perhaps more effectively). >> >> As an example: why is APNIC located in a very expensive >> region but has to be funded by not so wealthy countries? >> Perhaps APNIC's activity can be outsourced to GetIT :-) ? >> >> Well, that was my 100 rupiahs (after devaluation) babble ... >> >> >> -- >> Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim - CEO VLSM-TJT - http://www.tjt.or.id/rms46 >> -------- Nobody beats MIDAS ? Nobody ? --------------------------- >> ___________________________________________________________________________ >> | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | >> | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >___________________________________________________________________________ >| To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | >| Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-apple Mon Dec 8 22:34:04 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id WAA21047 for apple-outgoing; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:34:04 +0900 (JST) Received: from geocities.com (mail4.geocities.com [209.1.224.24]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id WAA21041 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:33:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from yapcs-r2 (yapcs-r2.iscs.nus.sg [137.132.85.230]) by geocities.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA20103; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 05:37:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <348BF79D.5136B825@geocities.com> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 21:35:25 +0800 From: "Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim" Organization: VLSM-TJT X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.30 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: MILIS APPLE Subject: Re: The Asia Pacific Region ... References: <199712080423.MAA21934@tigereye.hknet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Great! So there are: AIM http://www.aim.apic.net/ AISA http://www.aisa.org/ APNIC http://www.apnic.net/ APIA http://www.apia.org/ APNG http://www.apng.org/ APPLe ftp://ftp.apnic.net/mailing-lists/apple/ APRICOT http://www.apricot.net/ GETIT http://www.getit.org/ ISOC-TH http://www.isoc-th.org/ My prime intention is to rise awareness from this region, and definitely not for calling senior citizen's arguments. *ANY* comment -- no mater how simple or complicated, as long it is from *this* region -- is welcomed! Therefore, I am sending this message to "apple@apnic.net" without any cc:'s! However, it seems that the "Internet Awareness" in this region is not so high. I am qouting a statement from a leading weekly magazine in this region: "Nama (domain) itu didapat dari interNIC (Internet Network Information Center), suatu badan yang mengatur pemberian nama homepage dalam jaringan internet" Translation: "This (their domain) name was acquired from the interNIC (Internet Network Information Center), an organization which is in charge for distributing Internet homepage names" Meanwhile, there also exists an association that tries very hard to fool around by declaring something like: "ITU is now in charge in managing new TLDs, and we will be the ITU's authorized registry". Well, someone has to educate the public, however, "who", "how", (and "why"?). PS: JF wrote: > This is largely because the ISOC has sold out to the > special interests of the large companies that > have trademarks they want to protect from diversity and > dillution. > > In summary, the ISOC is a very small organization of narrow > minded people that is hardly the place to turn for broader > views and Internet expansion...unless of course you prefer to > have that expansion controlled by the ITU...in Geneva, Can you support your arguments? Can you arrange something "real" that *works* and is acceptable by the "majority" (whoops, what is that? :-) IMHO, the IAHC did a great job, its result is much better than RFC-1591. And, not mention that RFC-2050bis/PAGAN is limbo ... tabe, -- Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim - CEO VLSM-TJT - http://www.tjt.or.id/rms46 -------- Nobody beats MIDAS ? Nobody ? --------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-apple Wed Dec 10 17:52:30 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id RAA08426 for apple-outgoing; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 17:52:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from sigma.itu.ch (sigma.itu.ch [156.106.128.30]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id RAA08421 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 17:52:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from ties.itu.ch (ties.itu.ch) by ITU.CH (PMDF V5.0-6 #16074) id <01IR06JAXBVUAH3F4M@ITU.CH>; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:55:14 +0200 Received: from itu.int (usr0-02.itu.ch [156.106.192.155]) by ties.itu.ch (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA23815; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:54:51 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:56:57 +0100 From: Robert Shaw Subject: gTLD-MoU News (December 10, 1997) To: gtld-news@gtld-mou.org Message-id: <348E5959.74619886@itu.int> Organization: ITU MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <3475B8DA.9E3E82BF@itu.int> Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk gTLD-MoU News (December 10, 1997) Special note: If you are receiving this news through subscription to either the gtld-announce@gtld-mou.org or gtld-discuss@gtld-mou.org mailing lists, unsubscription information is available at http://www.gtld-mou.org/docs/maillist.htm The following updates have been posted on the gTLD-MoU web site at http://www.gtld-mou.org. As always, news announcements relating to the gTLD-MoU can be found at http://www.gtld-mou.org/index.html#news. December 8, 1997: An index of submissions made to Notice-97-03: "Proposed Trademark Dispute Resolution: Draft Substantive Guidelines for Administrative Domain Name Challenge Panels" is now available (see http://www.gtld-mou.org/docs/sub-97-03.htm and http://www.gtld-mou.org/docs/rfcs.html#97-03). Submissions made in binary formats have been converted to HTML to support viewing in a web browser. After reviewing comments received in response to Notice-97-03, a revised draft of the Substantive Guidelines will shortly be posted and another request for comments issued. December 1, 1997: Presentations related to the gTLD-MoU made at various events and meetings are now available. Most presentations are available in PowerPoint format - additional formats will be made available in the future. See http://www.gtld-mou.org/docs/gtld-mou-presentations.htm December 1, 1997: The Department of Economic Affairs of the State of Geneva, Switzerland has issued a press release (in French) on the choice of Geneva by CORE for the location of its permanent secretariat. See http://www.gtld-mou.org/press/dep-1.htm Robert -- Robert Shaw Advisor, Global Information Infrastructure International Telecommunication Union Place des Nations, 1211 Geneva, Switzerland ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-apple Fri Dec 12 11:20:10 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id LAA22369 for apple-outgoing; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:20:10 +0900 (JST) Received: from exchange1.ntu.ac.sg (exchange1.ntu.edu.sg [155.69.1.30]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id LAA22364 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:20:05 +0900 (JST) Received: by exchange1.ntu.edu.sg with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:22:49 +0800 Message-ID: From: Ang Peng Hwa To: "'APPLe '" Subject: 7 Nations Against Cybercrime Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:22:41 +0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Hot story on the wires about the Internet these days is that 7 countries are banding together to fight cybercrime. (Check: http://www.wired.com/news/news/email/other/politics/story/9089.html for the story.) The seven are Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia, and the United States. They apparently met for 1 day in the FBI HQ and emerged with several recommendations and a communique. I find several things puzzling about the meeting. 1. Why these 7? I would have thought that Australia should be included. After my paper at INET'97, an Australian came up to me to say that Australia has also given an electronic death penalty (er, that is different from electrocution) to a guy--no computer access for a period. And Australia has a lot of well thought out policies regarding the Internet and cyberspace. 2. Second, the US AG, Janet Reno, is quoted as saying "Criminals no longer are restricted by national boundaries.... If we are to keep up with cybercrime, we must work together as never before." Well, if criminals are not restricted by national boundaries, why is the meeting confined to the seven? Do the computer users in these seven countries account for the bulk of cybercrimes? In the end, it looks like an international conference may be needed. (Those on this list will remember the Australian recommendation on the international conference against pornography some months back.)Ok, so maybe this is the first step to an international conference. Maybe there is concern that any kind of regulation even against crime could get into content regulation and censorship of the Net. Whatever the reasons, it seems to me that Wired may indeed be right to describe the meeting as "Short on new thinking but long on determination." Regards, ANG Peng Hwa ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-apple Fri Dec 12 16:32:47 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id QAA24270 for apple-outgoing; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 16:32:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from armstrong.apic.net (armstrong.apic.net [203.22.101.2]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id QAA24265 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 16:32:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from boss.apic.net (boss.apic.net [203.22.102.40]) by armstrong.apic.net (8.8.6/APIC-2.1) with SMTP id SAA19899; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 18:36:04 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199712120736.SAA19899@armstrong.apic.net> X-Org: The Asia Pacific Internet Company Pty. Ltd. X-URL: http://www.apic.net/ X-Sender: bala@mail.apic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Release Candidate 3 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 18:29:33 +1100 To: SEASIA-L@MSU.EDU, apple@apnic.net From: Bala Pillai Subject: MY/BOOK: Cyberlaws in Malaysia (fw) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk **forwarded message** To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: BOOK: Book Launch - Cyberlaws in Malaysia Book Launching Ceremony 19 Dec 1997 (Friday), 7.30pm Federal Hotel (Banquet Hall), KL "CYBERLAWS IN MALAYSIA" (author: Lim Kit Siang) by YB Karpal Singh MP for Jelutong To be followed by a forum on "Malaysia Towards an Information Society" 1. IT, Globalisation & Currency/Economic Turmoil by Mr. Ou Shian Waei, General Manager (IBM World Trade Corporation) 2. Security & Freedom on Internet - Desirable Laws & Policies by Dinesh Nair, (IT Security Expert) 3. Promises, Prospect & and Perils of Cyberspace by Prof. Dr. Mohd Safar Hasim (Head of Communication Department, UKM) * Entrance Fee: RM20.00 (Student RM10.00) with complimentary copy of book. * Please confirm your attendance/Enquiries:- - Tel: 03-7578022 (Prem/Raymond/Ms. Sooi), 03-9857532 (Ms. Yaw) - Fax: 03-7575718 - Email- dap.malaysia@pobox.com - --------------------------------------------------------------------- dinesh@alphaque.com Moderator, jaring.announce --------------------------------------------------------------------- bala pillai bala@apic.net * For quick info on AIM send blank founder * asian internet marketing (aim) cybercommunity ph: +61 2 9419 5333 fax: +61 2 9419 5155 where pan-asian internet marketing, media and sales pioneers mingle. --------------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-apple Sun Dec 14 02:59:31 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id CAA03648 for apple-outgoing; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 02:59:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from farley.cisco.com (farley.cisco.com [204.179.2.54]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id CAA03641 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 02:59:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kiwi.cisco.com (kiwi [199.35.98.98]) by farley.cisco.com (8.8.5-Cisco.1/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA21548; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 10:02:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from bgreene-pc.cisco.com (sj-dial-3-33.cisco.com [171.68.179.34]) by kiwi.cisco.com (8.8.5-Cisco.1/CISCO.WS.1.2) with SMTP id KAA25878; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 10:01:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 01:58:15 +0800 Message-ID: <01BD0833.BD84E740.bgreene@cisco.com> From: Barry Raveendran Greene Reply-To: "bgreene@cisco.com" To: "'Ang Peng Hwa'" , "'APPLe '" Subject: RE: 7 Nations Against Cybercrime Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 00:39:05 +0800 Organization: Cisco Systems - Corporate Consulting Group X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Hello Peng Hwa, Where is Australia? What about Singapore and Malaysia? Both have work hard to develop and update their laws to cope with cybercrime. Barry On Friday, December 12, 1997 10:23 AM, Ang Peng Hwa [SMTP:TPHANG@ntu.edu.sg] wrote: > Hot story on the wires about the Internet these days is that 7 countries > are banding together to fight cybercrime. > > (Check: > http://www.wired.com/news/news/email/other/politics/story/9089.html for > the story.) > > The seven are Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia, > and the United States. They apparently met for 1 day in the FBI HQ and > emerged with several recommendations and a communique. > > I find several things puzzling about the meeting. > > 1. Why these 7? > > I would have thought that Australia should be included. After my paper > at INET'97, an Australian came up to me to say that Australia has also > given an electronic death penalty (er, that is different from > electrocution) to a guy--no computer access for a period. And Australia > has a lot of well thought out policies regarding the Internet and > cyberspace. > > > 2. Second, the US AG, Janet Reno, is quoted as saying "Criminals no > longer are restricted by national boundaries.... If we are to keep up > with cybercrime, we must work together as never before." > > Well, if criminals are not restricted by national boundaries, why is the > meeting confined to the seven? Do the computer users in these seven > countries account for the bulk of cybercrimes? > > > In the end, it looks like an international conference may be needed. > (Those on this list will remember the Australian recommendation on the > international conference against pornography some months back.)Ok, so > maybe this is the first step to an international conference. Maybe there > is concern that any kind of regulation even against crime could get into > content regulation and censorship of the Net. > > Whatever the reasons, it seems to me that Wired may indeed be right to > describe the meeting as "Short on new thinking but long on > determination." > > Regards, > ANG Peng Hwa > ___________________________________________________________________________ > | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | > | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-apple Tue Dec 16 06:49:41 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id GAA26932 for apple-outgoing; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 06:49:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from armstrong.apic.net (armstrong.apic.net [203.22.101.2]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id GAA26925 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 06:49:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from boss.apic.net (boss.apic.net [203.22.102.40]) by armstrong.apic.net (8.8.6/APIC-2.1) with SMTP id IAA00233 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 08:52:55 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199712152152.IAA00233@armstrong.apic.net> X-Org: The Asia Pacific Internet Company Pty. Ltd. X-URL: http://www.apic.net/ X-Sender: bala@mail.apic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Release Candidate 3 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 08:45:22 +1100 To: apple@apnic.net From: Bala Pillai Subject: BOOK: Review - Internet Governance Politics (fw) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Subject: INET: Book Review - Coordinating the Internet To: link@www.anu.edu.au (Link List), inet-issues@mail.aone.net.au (Inet-Issues) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:33:08 +1100 (EST) From: "Danny Yee" http://www.anatomy.su.oz.au/danny/book-reviews/h/Coordinating_Internet.html title: Coordinating the Internet edited: Brian Kahin + James H. Keller publisher: The MIT Press 1997 other: 491 pages, references, index The superstructural politics and economics of the Internet (such issues as censorship and taxation) have long held centre stage. Increasingly, however, the politics and economics of the low level operation of the Internet have emerged from the shadows. It is these -- the governance and pricing of routing, addressing, and naming services -- which are the subject of _Coordinating the Internet_. The first four essays consider general issues in Internet governance. Gillet and Kapor explain how 99% of the Internet operates without centralised control and suggest that coordination of domain name assignment and IP address allocation will eventually look "a lot more like coordination of the rest of the Internet". Gould provides a UK perspective, suggesting the evolution of English constitutional law and the supranational powers of the European Union as possible models for the Internet. Johnson and Post argue for decentralised governance, highlighting serious problems with alternatives such as extending national sovereignty, international treaties, or governance by international organisations. Rutkowski is less enthusiastic, claiming that "the notion of Internet self-governance is in fact an illusion arising from the relative unfamiliarity of many people associated with the Internet with either its history or the surrounding legal and regulatory constructs in which it exists". The domain name system is probably the most visible area of contention at the moment; it is the subject of seven of the papers in _Coordinating the Internet_. Five of them take different positions on the legal arguments over its interaction with trademark law and the political arguments over which organisations should be involved in its administration: the United Nations, the United States Federal government, InterNIC, and the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority just some of the contenders. Taking a step back, Andeen and King compare the DNS with telephony addressing in World Zone 1 (the North American Numbering Plan) and Mitchell, Bradner and Claffy argue that the obsession with the DNS is a red herring, that issues of Internet governance and sustainability are far broader. Moving on to less prominent but probably more fundamental issues, Rekhter, Resnick and Bellovin write about the need to provide financial incentives for route aggregation and efficient use of the address space, and suggest a framework for property rights and contracts that will achieve this. And Hoffman and Claffy evaluate the advantages and disadvantages of metro-based addressing (based on geography rather than provider). There are five papers on interconnection and settlement systems and agreements between service providers. Bailey and McKnight survey the variety of interconnection agreements and argue for the introduction of usage-sensitive pricing in conjunction with integrated services with guaranteed quality of service. Cawley, in contrast, extols "the virtues (and appropriateness) of capacity-based pricing and flat-rate tariffs", but suggests that many kinds of pricing models can coexist and that "interconnection and settlement are best left to market forces". Chinoy and Salo review what the transition from the NSFnet to commercial backbones teaches us about oversight and scaling issues. Farnon and Huddle use theoretical efficiency modelling to argue that the present "sender keeps all" settlement system is flawed. And Mueller, Hui and Cheng recount the history of the Hong Kong Internet Exchange. The final two papers deal with quality of service evaluation, with performance monitoring and statistics. Almes presents an overview of the IETF IP Provider Metrics effort, while Monk and Claffy suggest ways of overcoming practical obstacles -- political and economic as well as technological -- to adequate data acquisition. _Coordinating the Internet_ is moderately technical (though it avoids plumbing the complexities of protocols such as BGP) and on some issues its presentation of so many different viewpoints may be more confusing than clarifying. But it is an accessible and informative collection -- and an important and timely one, given the increasing urgency of some of the issues it debates. -- Disclaimer: I requested and received a review copy of _Coordinating the Internet_ from The MIT Press, but I have no stake, financial or otherwise, in its success. -- %T Coordinating the Internet %E Brian Kahin %E James H. Keller %I The MIT Press %C Cambridge, Massachusetts %D 1997 %O paperback, references, index %G ISBN 0-262-61136-8 %P xviii,491pp %U http://mitpress.mit.edu/book-home.tcl?isbn=0262611368 %K Internet, politics, economics, law 12 December 1997 --------------------------------------------------- Copyright (c) 1997 Danny Yee (danny@cs.usyd.edu.au) http://www.anatomy.usyd.edu.au/danny/book-reviews/ --------------------------------------------------- bala pillai* bala@sydney.net*the asia pacific internet co, sydney V I R T U A L C O M M U N I T Y E X P E R T S for info send blank ph:+61 2 9419 5333 fax: + 61 2 9419 5155 ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-apple Tue Dec 16 19:40:09 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id TAA02338 for apple-outgoing; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 19:40:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from sigma.itu.ch (sigma.itu.ch [156.106.128.30]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id TAA02333 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 19:40:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from ties.itu.ch (ties.itu.ch) by ITU.CH (PMDF V5.0-6 #16074) id <01IR8O0PJRBCAJLH81@ITU.CH>; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 11:42:39 +0200 Received: from itu.int (usr0-19.itu.ch [156.106.192.172]) by ties.itu.ch (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA13381; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 11:41:17 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 11:41:05 +0100 From: Robert Shaw Subject: gTLD-MoU News (December 16, 1997) To: gtld-news@gtld-mou.org Message-id: <34965AC1.C659C328@itu.int> Organization: ITU MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <3475B8DA.9E3E82BF@itu.int> Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk gTLD-MoU News (December 16, 1997) The following updates have been posted on the gTLD-MoU web site at http://www.gtld-mou.org. News announcements relating to the gTLD-MoU can be found at http://www.gtld-mou.org/index.html#news. December 16, 1997: The gTLD-MoU Policy Oversight Committee is issuing a request for public comments (Notice-97-04) on "Proposed Modification/Expansion of the gTLD-MoU Policy Oversight Committee (POC) and Amendment Process of the gTLD-MoU". The closing date for comments is January 31, 1998. Please see http://www.gtld-mou.org/docs/rfcs.html#97-04 and http://www.gtld-mou.org/docs/notice-97-04.html. The mail archives of submissions made to Notice-97-04 are located at http://www.gtld-mou.org/notice-97-04/. Special note: If you are receiving this news through subscription to either the gtld-announce@gtld-mou.org or gtld-discuss@gtld-mou.org mailing lists, unsubscription information is available at http://www.gtld-mou.org/docs/maillist.htm Robert -- Robert Shaw Advisor, Global Information Infrastructure International Telecommunication Union Place des Nations, 1211 Geneva, Switzerland ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-apple Wed Dec 17 02:33:11 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id CAA04931 for apple-outgoing; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 02:33:11 +0900 (JST) Received: from copper.singnet.com.sg (copper.singnet.com.sg [165.21.7.30]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id CAA04926 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 02:33:04 +0900 (JST) From: laina@singnet.com.sg Received: from isjfvzjl (sj-dial-2-4.cisco.com [171.68.179.133]) by copper.singnet.com.sg (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA18860; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 01:36:05 +0800 (SGT) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 97 00:38:52 Subject: RE: BOOK: Review - Internet Governance Politics (fw) To: apple@apnic.net, Bala Pillai X-PRIORITY: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: Chameleon 5.0, TCP/IP for Windows, NetManage Inc. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk For your information, this book is based on papers presented during the Harvard Information Infrastructure Conference which was held in September 1996, which we had discussed about on APPLe last year. Laina RG --- On Tue, 16 Dec 1997 08:45:22 +1100 Bala Pillai wrote: ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Subject: INET: Book Review - Coordinating the Internet To: link@www.anu.edu.au (Link List), inet-issues@mail.aone.net.au (Inet-Issues) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:33:08 +1100 (EST) From: "Danny Yee" http://www.anatomy.su.oz.au/danny/book-reviews/h/Coordinating_Internet.h tml title: Coordinating the Internet edited: Brian Kahin + James H. Keller publisher: The MIT Press 1997 other: 491 pages, references, index The superstructural politics and economics of the Internet (such issues as censorship and taxation) have long held centre stage. Increasingly, however, the politics and economics of the low level operation of the Internet have emerged from the shadows. It is these -- the governance and pricing of routing, addressing, and naming services -- which are the subject of _Coordinating the Internet_. The first four essays consider general issues in Internet governance. Gillet and Kapor explain how 99% of the Internet operates without centralised control and suggest that coordination of domain name assignment and IP address allocation will eventually look "a lot more like coordination of the rest of the Internet". Gould provides a UK perspective, suggesting the evolution of English constitutional law and the supranational powers of the European Union as possible models for the Internet. Johnson and Post argue for decentralised governance, highlighting serious problems with alternatives such as extending national sovereignty, international treaties, or governance by international organisations. Rutkowski is less enthusiastic, claiming that "the notion of Internet self-governance is in fact an illusion arising from the relative unfamiliarity of many people associated with the Internet with either its history or the surrounding legal and regulatory constructs in which it exists". The domain name system is probably the most visible area of contention at the moment; it is the subject of seven of the papers in _Coordinating the Internet_. Five of them take different positions on the legal arguments over its interaction with trademark law and the political arguments over which organisations should be involved in its administration: the United Nations, the United States Federal government, InterNIC, and the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority just some of the contenders. Taking a step back, Andeen and King compare the DNS with telephony addressing in World Zone 1 (the North American Numbering Plan) and Mitchell, Bradner and Claffy argue that the obsession with the DNS is a red herring, that issues of Internet governance and sustainability are far broader. Moving on to less prominent but probably more fundamental issues, Rekhter, Resnick and Bellovin write about the need to provide financial incentives for route aggregation and efficient use of the address space, and suggest a framework for property rights and contracts that will achieve this. And Hoffman and Claffy evaluate the advantages and disadvantages of metro-based addressing (based on geography rather than provider). There are five papers on interconnection and settlement systems and agreements between service providers. Bailey and McKnight survey the variety of interconnection agreements and argue for the introduction of usage-sensitive pricing in conjunction with integrated services with guaranteed quality of service. Cawley, in contrast, extols "the virtues (and appropriateness) of capacity-based pricing and flat-rate tariffs", but suggests that many kinds of pricing models can coexist and that "interconnection and settlement are best left to market forces". Chinoy and Salo review what the transition from the NSFnet to commercial backbones teaches us about oversight and scaling issues. Farnon and Huddle use theoretical efficiency modelling to argue that the present "sender keeps all" settlement system is flawed. And Mueller, Hui and Cheng recount the history of the Hong Kong Internet Exchange. The final two papers deal with quality of service evaluation, with performance monitoring and statistics. Almes presents an overview of the IETF IP Provider Metrics effort, while Monk and Claffy suggest ways of overcoming practical obstacles -- political and economic as well as technological -- to adequate data acquisition. _Coordinating the Internet_ is moderately technical (though it avoids plumbing the complexities of protocols such as BGP) and on some issues its presentation of so many different viewpoints may be more confusing than clarifying. But it is an accessible and informative collection -- and an important and timely one, given the increasing urgency of some of the issues it debates. -- Disclaimer: I requested and received a review copy of _Coordinating the Internet_ from The MIT Press, but I have no stake, financial or otherwise, in its success. -- %T Coordinating the Internet %E Brian Kahin %E James H. Keller %I The MIT Press %C Cambridge, Massachusetts %D 1997 %O paperback, references, index %G ISBN 0-262-61136-8 %P xviii,491pp %U http://mitpress.mit.edu/book-home.tcl?isbn=0262611368 %K Internet, politics, economics, law 12 December 1997 --------------------------------------------------- Copyright (c) 1997 Danny Yee (danny@cs.usyd.edu.au) http://www.anatomy.usyd.edu.au/danny/book-reviews/ --------------------------------------------------- bala pillai* bala@sydney.net*the asia pacific internet co, sydney V I R T U A L C O M M U N I T Y E X P E R T S for info send blank ph:+61 2 9419 5333 fax: + 61 2 9419 5155 ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------------End of Original Message----------------- ------------------------------------- Name: Laina Raveendran Greene E-mail: laina@singnet.com.sg Date: 12/17/97 Time: 12:38:52 AM This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-apple Wed Dec 17 20:19:48 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id UAA11977 for apple-outgoing; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 20:19:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from geocities.com (mail3.geocities.com [209.1.224.23]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id UAA11972 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 20:19:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from yapcs-r2 (yapcs-r2.iscs.nus.sg [137.132.85.230]) by geocities.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA13147; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 03:22:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3497B594.615FDE3F@geocities.com> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 19:20:52 +0800 From: "Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim" Organization: VLSM-TJT X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.30 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: RMS-TJT Subject: ISO-3166 and TLD codes ... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Dr W Black wrote: > BSI informed me some time ago sorry: what is "BSI" ? > that whatever it is must be recognised by the UN as an independent > "country". Given that recognition, then the maintenance agency > for ISO 3166 (DIN) will take requests for amendments accordingly. Unfortunately, I found that the UN **IS NOT** in "country recognition" business! I have checked the UN library as well as I have interviewed an UN staff (a couple years ago). The UN itself is very loose defined: it is only headed by a "Secretary General" (or Sekjen in my language :-), and not by a "Chairman" or what so ever .... Well, this is catch-22: IANA refers to ISO-3166, ISO in Berlin refers to what is "recognized" by the UN, and UN is not in recognition business :-(. Perhaps, we need a legal expert ? bagaimana kumaha euy, -- Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim - CEO VLSM-TJT - http://www.vlsm.org/rms46 -- It's new? Novel? Different? Great! Does it work? - J Mansfield - ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-apple Thu Dec 18 00:31:31 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id AAA13302 for apple-outgoing; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 00:31:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from zephyr.isi.edu (zephyr.isi.edu [128.9.160.160]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id AAA13296 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 00:31:19 +0900 (JST) From: bmanning@ISI.EDU Received: from zed.isi.edu (zed.isi.edu [128.9.160.57]) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id HAA19960 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 07:34:20 -0800 (PST) Posted-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 07:33:16 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712171533.AA08347@zed.isi.edu> Received: by zed.isi.edu (5.65c/4.0.3-6) id ; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 07:33:16 -0800 Subject: http://www.arl.wustl.edu/~jst/TransPrice.html To: apple@apnic.net Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 07:33:16 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk an interesting viewpoint... :) -- --bill ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-apple Thu Dec 18 01:42:35 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id BAA13582 for apple-outgoing; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 01:42:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from armstrong.apic.net (armstrong.apic.net [203.22.101.2]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id BAA13574 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 01:41:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from boss.apic.net (boss.apic.net [203.22.102.40]) by armstrong.apic.net (8.8.6/APIC-2.1) with SMTP id DAA27507; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 03:45:02 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199712171645.DAA27507@armstrong.apic.net> X-Org: The Asia Pacific Internet Company Pty. Ltd. X-URL: http://www.apic.net/ X-Sender: bala@mail.apic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Release Candidate 3 Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 03:37:11 +1100 To: bmanning@ISI.EDU From: Bala Pillai Subject: Re: http://www.arl.wustl.edu/~jst/TransPrice.html Cc: apple@apnic.net, jst@cs.wustl.edu, fist@ozemail.com.au In-Reply-To: <199712171533.AA08347@zed.isi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk At 07:33 AM 12/17/97 -0800, bmanning@ISI.EDU wrote: > >an interesting viewpoint... :) Bill, It is a sensible viewpoint and one that was echoed by Stewart Fist, telecommunications writer for the national daily in Australia, The Australian about a year ago when he argued for 25 cents flat fee calls nationwide are patently doable. George Gilder also argues the same position - i.e. that bandwidth efficiencies will see situations better than the "half the price for doubling of capacity" that we saw in processing power efficiencies. Yet, "oh-it-costs-us-too-much" telco hearing after hearing in most countries - Australia some months ago and the Philippines most recently seem to end up with what appears to be "no, it is not true" - i.e. the telcos *are not* swimming in largesse. I don't see Jonathan's position being clearly vocalised in the US itself in mainstream media. Ask gurus on the ground like Ramin Marzbani, and he'll say bluntly "no way" - the politicos won't have a bar of it. Any idea why? Is it that much of complicated issue that there cannot be crisp mind-share between consumer organisations and the media? Is it because the tripartite unholy marriage between telcos, politicos and public relations supremos disguised as telecommunication consultants so tight that truth is submerged? Perhaps we've got to let Ralph Nader and Jesse Berst loose on this one? We need one country to pave the way. cheers../bala --------------------------------------------------------------------- bala pillai bala@apic.net * For quick info on AIM send blank founder * asian internet marketing (aim) cybercommunity ph: +61 2 9419 5333 fax: +61 2 9419 5155 where pan-asian internet marketing, media and sales pioneers mingle. --------------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-apple Thu Dec 18 03:07:17 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id DAA14142 for apple-outgoing; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 03:07:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from fractal.chaos.com (fractal.chaos.com [206.5.17.2]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with SMTP id DAA14137 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 03:07:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from [206.5.17.2] by fractal.chaos.com (NTMail 3.03.0014/1.abie) with ESMTP id ba023661 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:10:10 -0500 Message-Id: X-Sender: amr@fractal.chaos.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Release Candidate 3 Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:10:08 -0500 To: bmanning@ISI.EDU, apple@apnic.net From: Tony Rutkowski Subject: Re: http://www.arl.wustl.edu/~jst/TransPrice.html In-Reply-To: <199712171533.AA08347@zed.isi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Bill, >an interesting viewpoint... :) It is an old concern - one keenly seen and highlighted outside the U.S. What's new is Jonathan Turner's vetting of the problem domestically. I'm including below a posting from several months ago containing pointers to Henry Ergas' and Hugo Dixon's work and publicity on this problem over the years,...and most recently, Andy Evagora's tele.com article. It appears that Jonathan's problems are primarily in local access, where the tariffs are set by local regulatory bodies, and the degree of competition varies significantly from locale to locale. The real hope for competitive pressure many lie in the emerging broadband wireless systems now beginning to be implemented or planned. SkyStation is a particularly intriguing one. See www.skystation.com --tony > >Andreas' article is a most interesting update on age-old >problems. It's good reporting, and sure to generate >considerable reflection and comment throughout the AP region. > >As he notes in the article, the skewed architecture largely >results from the managed cartel approaches effected by the >world's PTTs that have: 1) created artificial scarcities, 2) >propped up prices far beyond costs, and 3) taken traditional >narrow planning approaches to projecting demand. > >The first public coverage of the situation was Hugo Dixon's >classic Counting the Cost of Calls on the front page of the >Financial Times in 1991 (which also resulted in his becoming >"banned" at the ITU for naming it as the root cartel organization). > >The more detailed analytical work, however, goes back a >while - if people are interested. The earliest work >was probably the MIT book by Ithiel Pool, Marvin Sirbu, >and Richard Solomon on Tariff Policy and Capital Formation >in Telecommunications. I did an article for the 1984 >ITU Legal Symposium discussing the international pricing >effects resulting from open digital networks. Richard >Solomon and Loretta Anania (now at the EC) did >a marvelous two piece article in Telecommunications >Magazine in Jan-Feb 1987 entitled Paradoxes and Puzzles >of Digital Networks. > >However, the best and most specific international analyses >were done by Henry Ergas of Australia and Leonard Braverman >of Canada. They provided most of the underpinning material >for Hugo Dixon's famous article and have continued work over >most of this decade. This was used in both the OECD and >the WTO to shift the regulatory norms from the ITU to >the WTO. Henry is currently an OECD adviser, and you >can find some of his papers on the Web. If he isn't >already involved in the Asian Internet bandwidth issues, >I'm sure he shortly will be. > ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-apple Thu Dec 18 08:35:55 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id IAA16154 for apple-outgoing; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:35:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from fractal.chaos.com (fractal.chaos.com [206.5.17.2]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with SMTP id IAA16149 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:35:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from [206.5.17.2] by fractal.chaos.com (NTMail 3.03.0014/1.abie) with ESMTP id ya023710 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:38:29 -0500 X-Sender: amr@fractal.chaos.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Release Candidate 3 Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:38:28 -0500 To: apple@apnic.net From: Tony Rutkowski Subject: Re: ISO-3166 and TLD codes ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: <23382917700945@chaos.com> Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Ramat, >Unfortunately, I found that the UN **IS NOT** in "country recognition" >business! I have checked the UN library as well as I have interviewed >an UN staff (a couple years ago). This isn't exactly the case, despite the response you received. Part of the fuzzyness derives from subtle but important differences in the use of terminology. I've provided a discussion of law and practice below, as I've had first-hand experience with the subject in Geneva. The U.N. is an organization of "states," and additional states are admitted by decision of the General Assembly pursuant to Art 4 of the U.N. Charter. So clearly, the U.N. admittance constitutes an important element of being recognized as a state. Most of the other intergovernmental organizations also use the term state. In a functional sense, states are the major actors in the international legal system. They operate the system. A good reference concerning the definition and recognition of states can be found in the classic U.S. law school text "The International Legal System" by Leech, Oliver and Sweeney. The 1933 Convention on Rights and Duties of States requires that a State to be recognized as such, should have 1) a defined territory, 2) a permanent population, 3) a government, and 4) the capacity to enter into relations with other states. The term of "country" is a less rigorous one, meaning a place occupied by an independent nation or people, or the inhabitants of such a territory. See Black's Law Dictionary. This notion of place or territory is reinforced, for example, by the tendency in ITU instruments to use term "country" instead of "state" in conjunction with the application of provisions that deal with radio or telecommunication systems. The ISO standard here deals with countries. However, there is a joint agreement and long-standing practice of coordinating ISO country codes between the two organizations. Here, the politics of the U.N. system get involved, and states use their leverage to effect international policies and tactics through the granting or denial of country codes. In practice, the matter is coordinated between the direct assistants to Director-General of the ISO and the Secretary-General of the ITU. The ITU staff in turn stay "tuned" to politics across the U.N. system - often coordinating matters within U.N. interagency mechanisms, and conferencing with perceived powers. Invariably, only states, or territories protected and sanctioned by states - as represented in U.N. instruments - get country codes. It's also worth noting that there are actually many sets of ISO-ITU country codes: the A2, A3, and Number codes in ISO 3166, plus the ITU's various other codes used in conjunction with specific radiocommunication and telecommunication standards and record keeping systems. Despite the professed practice within the Internet arena to follow the ISO 3166 A2 standard, there are exceptions. Indeed, because the Internet is the abstract interoperation of private networks/resources and not under any intergovernmental aegis, there is absolutely no compelling need to follow the ISO standard as anything more than a reference guide. (It's also a reason for avoiding the notion of the Internet or component services like DNS being "public" - like the plague, since under international law and practice, this brings the matter under diverse intergovernmental provisions.) cheers, --tony ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-apple Thu Dec 18 09:04:46 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id JAA16300 for apple-outgoing; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 09:04:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from armstrong.apic.net (armstrong.apic.net [203.22.101.2]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id JAA16295 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 09:04:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from boss.apic.net (boss.apic.net [203.22.102.40]) by armstrong.apic.net (8.8.6/APIC-2.1) with SMTP id LAA13768 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:08:05 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199712180008.LAA13768@armstrong.apic.net> X-Org: The Asia Pacific Internet Company Pty. Ltd. X-URL: http://www.apic.net/ X-Sender: bala@mail.apic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Release Candidate 3 Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:00:19 +1100 To: apple@apnic.net From: Bala Pillai Subject: Microsoft & the Sioux Indian Uprising (fw) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Source: http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/story/story_1560.html Three Hidden Dangers Dog Microsoft, Wed Dec 17 Jesse Berst, Editorial Director ZDNet AnchorDesk An adage warns us to heed the lessons of history, or be doomed to repeat them. If true, Microsoft would be wise to re-read the chapter in American history about the Sioux Indian Uprising of 1862. Or it may be doomed to learn the lessons first hand. Perhaps you recall the story of a group of Sioux Indians in Minnesota. Starving, and sick of broken promises from the U.S. government, it staged a bloody revolt, massacring white settlers. The uprising marked the beginning of a series of Indian wars that didn't end until the infamous Battle of Wounded Knee nearly 30 years later. If Microsoft isn't careful, it could find itself the object of a vicious revolt staged by its computer manufacturer "partners." Manufacturers who are sick of having their survival depend on complying with Microsoft's wishes. But afraid they will starve if they don't. The company's haughty response to a temporary court order only fans the flames. The order, handed down last week by U.S. District Court Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson, requires the company to stop forcing computer makers to include Microsoft's Internet browser with bundled copies of the Windows 95 OS. In response, the software giant says it will appeal the order on the grounds the judge overstepped his authority. But -- claiming it is such a nice guy -- it promises to comply with the order in the meantime. And so it will. By offering computer makers, as an alternative, a two-year-old version of Windows 95 with the Internet Explorer browser files removed. That the company warns may not work very well. And that lacks functionality found in later versions of the operating system, such as support for larger hard drives and USB (firewire) technology. Microsoft's unrepentant tone only exacerbates three hidden dangers facing the company, problems that could bring it to its knees: 1. OEM negotiations. Battered, oppressed, and forced to comply with the software giant's every demand, computer makers are fed up. Should they suddenly find themselves with the upper-hand -- say, by dint of some permanent court ruling -- Microsoft may find itself victim of an OEM uprising. And paybacks are hell. 2. DOJ negotiations. Microsoft is foolish to treat the Justice Department like an enemy, rather than a referee. Bill Gates should take a hint from smart sports teams. They work the ref, they try to get the crowd to boo the ref, but they never attack the ref. Microsoft could have handled this matter much differently, and ended up making some innocuous little adjustment. Instead it attacked the ref. Now everybody is mad. 3. Industry negotiations. People underestimate the importance of momentum. And perception. What if the government fact finder comes down against Microsoft, and forces the company to unhook Internet Explorer from the upcoming Windows 98? If the company doesn't have a back-up version of Win98, if the company can't make a quick switch, there will be enormous ramifications for the computing industry. For hardware makers who need the OS on time to ship their orders on time. For software makers who are building products to Microsoft specs. For Fortune 1000 companies that are making huge investments based on the new OS. If it appears Windows 98 is in trouble -- Microsoft is in trouble. When we asked Brad Chase, vice president of Microsoft's Internet group, about these dangers he argued that Internet Explorer is the best browser, and OEMs don't want to ship machines without it. He argued that the U.S. government is unreasonable, and Microsoft is doing everything it can to play fair. And he argued there could be no Windows 98 without Internet Explorer, because they are essentially the same thing. What do you think? Do you think Microsoft is being as fair as it can be? Or is the company setting itself up to be the target of an industry uprising? Scroll to the bottom of this page and click Talk Back to send me a note. I'll post some of the best responses beneath this column. The U.S. government underestimated a growing unrest among the Sioux Indians back in the 1860s. That mistake triggered three decades of bloody wars between settlers and Native Americans. Likewise, Microsoft is underestimating a growing unrest among its OEM partners and the industry. This mistake could trigger the kind of battles that leave us all bloody. ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-apple Thu Dec 18 09:46:29 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id JAA16804 for apple-outgoing; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 09:46:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from armstrong.apic.net (armstrong.apic.net [203.22.101.2]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id JAA16798 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 09:46:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from boss.apic.net (boss.apic.net [203.22.102.40]) by armstrong.apic.net (8.8.6/APIC-2.1) with SMTP id LAA15904 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:49:51 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199712180049.LAA15904@armstrong.apic.net> X-Org: The Asia Pacific Internet Company Pty. Ltd. X-URL: http://www.apic.net/ X-Sender: bala@mail.apic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Release Candidate 3 Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:42:05 +1100 To: apple@apnic.net From: Bala Pillai Subject: Vote of No Confidence on UK USENET Incumbents (fw) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 3 Nov 97 21:07:02 CST From: No Confidence UK Subject: Internet Activists versus UK Usenet Committee HELP FIGHT THE UK USENET COMMITTEE - VOTING HAS STARTED After much delay, voting has started in the Vote of Confidence in the UK Usenet Committee. This is the body that manages the part of Usenet beginning with the letter 'uk.' Basically it has been treating the whole space as its private property and has been obstructing members of the community who want to create new groups. We need your help - please help kick this Committee out of power. ANYONE CAN VOTE - you do NOT have to be in the UK - all you need is an e-mail address anywhere in the world. The No Confidence Campaign has a website at: http:///www.geocities.com /CapitolHill/Lobby/7022 which includes full information on how to vote. Please help us by taking part in the vote and publicising this campaign as widely as possible. There isn't much community activism specifically focused on Usenet at the moment, but in the uk. part of Usenet we have had to put up with so much crap from the ruling elite. Voting them out in a vote of confidence seems at the moment the only thing we can do to defeat them. They have made the atmosphere so bad on the special newsgroup where proposals to create new groups are discussed that so far we have just argued with them a bit and then gone off and done something else. But their power-craziness is getting worse, and would probably get worse still if they won this vote. So voting NO in the vote of confidence is very important! Regards, Joan F Coordinator Campaign for No Confidence in the UK Usenet Committee --------------------------------------------------------------------- bala pillai bala@apic.net * For quick info on AIM send blank founder * asian internet marketing (aim) cybercommunity ph: +61 2 9419 5333 fax: +61 2 9419 5155 where pan-asian internet marketing, media and sales pioneers mingle. --------------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-apple Thu Dec 18 13:51:23 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id NAA19037 for apple-outgoing; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:51:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from dunno.consultco.com (root@ns.consultco.com.au [203.26.5.3]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id NAA19031 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:51:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from ramin.consultco.com.au (ramin [203.26.5.27]) by dunno.consultco.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA18155; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:53:52 +1100 Message-ID: <3498AC0B.762D7FA5@consultco.com.au> Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:52:27 +1100 From: ramin Organization: www.consult pty limited X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bala Pillai CC: apple@apnic.net Subject: Re: Microsoft & the Sioux Indian Uprising (fw) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199712180008.LAA13768@armstrong.apic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Jesse got the OEM picture right but there are the customers and users as well. The recent (4th) www.consult Australian Internet User Survey (>12,000 responses) highlighted a growing anti-microsoft groundswell amongst Internet users. Some 15% said they chose their browser because they wanted to support anti-Microsoft products (vs 5% wanting to support Microsoft products). It would be a pity to see a company that has done so much for innovation and consumers become like the IBM of the 70s and 80s (another history lesson, I think). Cheers Bala Pillai wrote: > > Source: http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/story/story_1560.html > > Three Hidden Dangers Dog Microsoft, Wed Dec 17 > > Jesse Berst, Editorial Director ZDNet AnchorDesk > > An adage warns us to heed the lessons of history, or be doomed to repeat > them. If tr -- ramin marzbani www.consult pty limited http://www.consultco.com.au -------QUESTION ALL KNOWLEDGE---(some movie, i think)----- Looking for a Web Developer? Try http://web-developers.com ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-apple Thu Dec 18 18:39:44 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id SAA21119 for apple-outgoing; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 18:39:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from mail1.ntu.ac.sg ([155.69.1.33] (may be forged)) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id SAA21114 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 18:39:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by MAIL1 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 17:41:27 +0800 Message-ID: From: Ang Peng Hwa To: "'apple@apnic.net '" , "'Bala Pillai '" Subject: RE: Vote of No Confidence on UK USENET Incumbents (fw) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 17:41:20 +0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Bala, I appreciate your sending this info to this list but I think you should have made a comment or provided some additional info about the partisan email. As this thing stands, it *looks* like readers should act on it, ie vote against the committee. I say this because the email says >ANYONE CAN VOTE - you do NOT have to be in the UK - all you need is an >e-mail address anywhere in the world. But not anyone *should* vote. Only those familiar with the issues should vote. There is all the info for one side but not the other. This is where Cliff Stoll's concerns in Silicon Snake Oil arise: it looks like teledemocracy but without the full facts, it is only televoting. Regards, Ang Peng Hwa ---------- From: Bala Pillai To: apple@apnic.net Sent: 18/12/97 8:42:05 AM Subject: Vote of No Confidence on UK USENET Incumbents (fw) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 3 Nov 97 21:07:02 CST From: No Confidence UK Subject: Internet Activists versus UK Usenet Committee HELP FIGHT THE UK USENET COMMITTEE - VOTING HAS STARTED After much delay, voting has started in the Vote of Confidence in the UK Usenet Committee. This is the body that manages the part of Usenet beginning with the letter 'uk.' Basically it has been treating the whole space as its private property and has been obstructing members of the community who want to create new groups. We need your help - please help kick this Committee out of power. ANYONE CAN VOTE - you do NOT have to be in the UK - all you need is an e-mail address anywhere in the world. The No Confidence Campaign has a website at: http:///www.geocities. com /CapitolHill/Lobby/7022 which includes full information on how to vote. Please help us by taking part in the vote and publicising this campaign as widely as possible. There isn't much community activism specifically focused on Usenet at the moment, but in the uk. part of Usenet we have had to put up with so much crap from the ruling elite. Voting them out in a vote of confidence seems at the moment the only thing we can do to defeat them. They have made the atmosphere so bad on the special newsgroup where proposals to create new groups are discussed that so far we have just argued with them a bit and then gone off and done something else. But their power-craziness is getting worse, and would probably get worse still if they won this vote. So voting NO in the vote of confidence is very important! Regards, Joan F Coordinator Campaign for No Confidence in the UK Usenet Committee --------------------------------------------------------------------- bala pillai bala@apic.net * For quick info on AIM send blank founder * asian internet marketing (aim) cybercommunity ph: +61 2 9419 5333 fax: +61 2 9419 5155 where pan-asian internet marketing, media and sales pioneers mingle. --------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________ ___ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-apple Thu Dec 18 18:58:36 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id SAA21313 for apple-outgoing; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 18:58:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from armstrong.apic.net (armstrong.apic.net [203.22.101.2]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id SAA21307 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 18:58:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from boss.apic.net (boss.apic.net [203.22.102.40]) by armstrong.apic.net (8.8.6/APIC-2.1) with SMTP id VAA11019; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:01:46 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199712181001.VAA11019@armstrong.apic.net> X-Org: The Asia Pacific Internet Company Pty. Ltd. X-URL: http://www.apic.net/ X-Sender: bala@mail.apic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Release Candidate 3 Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 20:54:05 +1100 To: Ang Peng Hwa From: Bala Pillai Subject: RE: Vote of No Confidence on UK USENET Incumbents (fw) Cc: "'apple@apnic.net '" In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Peng Hwa, Apologies if it came off that way. That was not my intention. I found it a thought-provoking example of Internet self-governance at work. (albeit flawed for the reasons you mention - i.e. anybody can vote - but if those are the rules, those are the rules until they are changed) I really wasn't in any position to make any more intelligent comments about it. Just so it is clear, unless I expressly say so, I am neither in favour nor against the position in any messages that I forward. In the interests of buttressing consensus with consideration of views from every colour of the spectrum however objectionable they be, I forward them. The typical criteria is "is it thought-provoking?". Sorry if I lead anyone astray. cheers../bala bala@apic.net At 05:41 PM 12/18/97 +0800, Ang Peng Hwa wrote: >Bala, > >I appreciate your sending this info to this list but I think you should >have made a comment or provided some additional info about the partisan >email. As this thing stands, it *looks* like readers should act on it, >ie vote against the committee. > >I say this because the email says >>ANYONE CAN VOTE - you do NOT have to be in the UK - all you need is an >>e-mail address anywhere in the world. > >But not anyone *should* vote. Only those familiar with the issues should >vote. There is all the info for one side but not the other. > >This is where Cliff Stoll's concerns in Silicon Snake Oil arise: it >looks like teledemocracy but without the full facts, it is only >televoting. > >Regards, >Ang Peng Hwa > >---------- >From: Bala Pillai >To: apple@apnic.net >Sent: 18/12/97 8:42:05 AM >Subject: Vote of No Confidence on UK USENET Incumbents (fw) > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Mon, 3 Nov 97 21:07:02 CST >From: No Confidence UK >Subject: Internet Activists versus UK Usenet Committee > >HELP FIGHT THE UK USENET COMMITTEE - VOTING HAS STARTED > >After much delay, voting has started in the Vote of Confidence in the >UK Usenet Committee. > >This is the body that manages the part of Usenet beginning with the >letter 'uk.' Basically it has been treating the whole space as its >private property and has been obstructing members of the community who >want to create new groups. > >We need your help - please help kick this Committee out of power. >ANYONE CAN VOTE - you do NOT have to be in the UK - all you need is an >e-mail address anywhere in the world. > >The No Confidence Campaign has a website at: >http:///www.geocities. >com >/CapitolHill/Lobby/7022 >which includes full information on how to vote. > >Please help us by taking part in the vote and publicising this >campaign as widely as possible. > >There isn't much community activism specifically focused on Usenet at >the moment, but in the uk. part of Usenet we have had to put up with >so much crap from the ruling elite. Voting them out in a vote of >confidence seems at the moment the only thing we can do to defeat >them. They have made the atmosphere so bad on the special newsgroup >where proposals to create new groups are discussed that so far we have >just argued with them a bit and then gone off and done something else. >But their power-craziness is getting worse, and would probably get >worse still if they won this vote. > >So voting NO in the vote of confidence is very important! > >Regards, > >Joan F >Coordinator >Campaign for No Confidence in the UK Usenet Committee > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >bala pillai bala@apic.net * For quick info on AIM send blank >founder * >asian internet marketing (aim) cybercommunity >ph: +61 2 9419 5333 fax: +61 2 9419 5155 >where pan-asian internet marketing, media and sales pioneers mingle. >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >________________________________________________________________________ >___ >| To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net >| >| Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed >with | >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >-- > ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-apple Thu Dec 18 21:57:12 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id VAA22272 for apple-outgoing; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:57:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from geocities.com (mail2.geocities.com [209.1.224.30]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id VAA22267 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:57:05 +0900 (JST) Received: from yapcs-r2 (yapcs-r2.iscs.nus.sg [137.132.85.230]) by geocities.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA29664; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 04:59:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34991DDB.433AAEEB@geocities.com> Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 20:58:03 +0800 From: "Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim" Organization: VLSM-TJT X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.30 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: MILIS APPLE Subject: Re: ISO-3166 and TLD codes ... References: <23382917700945@chaos.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Tony Rutkowski wrote: > I've provided a discussion of law and practice below, as > I've had first-hand experience with the subject in Geneva. Thank you very much for your insights. It is interesting to observe that an email from the TLD-ADMIN list, forwarded to this APPle list. Its reply was forwarded to the DOMAIN-POLICY list and forwarded back to the TLD-ADMIN list. Well, I have 3 more legal questions. Who knows, you have answers for those questions. Usually, I use "futuristic" characters like StarTreks's "Vulcans" and "Klingons". However, this time I would like to use unpopular historical metaphors. 1. Nationalsozialismus (NAZI) As far as I know (AFIK), NAZI was a *legal* entity in the 1930-s. At that time, they even won the German's general election. Well, it is true that they did not have a web page :^|. Nonetheless, being a legal entity does not mean that what they did was legal, right? Question: - If an organization has a legal by-law, a rigorous structure, many paying members, and even a web page, does it mean what they do is always legal? 2. The Nuremberg Trial AFIK, in 1945, those NAZIs went on trial at Nuremberg. Nonetheless, the "We did just follow orders" argument was not applicable at that trail. Question: - Is it OK, if an organization just follow their paying member's order ? - RFC-1881 (http://ds.internic.net/rfc/rfc1881.txt) sez: "Any revenues (such as transaction fees) received with respect to the IPv6 address space should be used only for expenses related to registry activities, and not to subsidize any other activities. There will be no charges for the address space itself, only fees to recover the registry costs." How will be the EDP Auditing Control mechanism, if the registry only follow their "members" order ? 3. The Post WWII period AFIK, after WWII, new countries emerged. Some new countries have some of these following properties: - all is controlled by a small circle clique - they always think that they did the best for their people - they do not know how to spell "A B D I C A T E" - they do not welcome "different" opinions - they do not even have clue on how to handle the different opinions what they labeled "flame", "noise", etc. Whoops, does it sound familiar ? I am just talking-talking about emerging countries, lah! Adios, -- Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim - CEO VLSM-TJT - http://www.vlsm.org/rms46 -- It's new? Novel? Different? Great! Does it work? - J Mansfield - ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-apple Sun Dec 21 13:43:26 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id NAA18449 for apple-outgoing; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 13:43:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from farley.cisco.com (farley.cisco.com [204.179.2.54]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id NAA18403; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 13:39:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kiwi.cisco.com (kiwi [199.35.98.98]) by farley.cisco.com (8.8.5-Cisco.1/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA00719; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 20:36:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from bgreene-pc.cisco.com (sj-dial-3-7.cisco.com [171.68.179.8]) by kiwi.cisco.com (8.8.5-Cisco.1/CISCO.WS.1.2) with SMTP id UAA24201; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 20:36:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 12:32:38 +0800 Message-ID: <01BD0E0C.85C7C460.bgreene@cisco.com> From: Barry Raveendran Greene Reply-To: "bgreene@cisco.com" Subject: APRICOT Update - the Internet's best will be there to teach the tutorials ... Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 09:59:32 +0800 Organization: Cisco Systems - Corporate Consulting Group X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk [Apologies for duplicates. We're working to get the word out the Internet way. For up to date information, sign on to apricot-info@apnic.net (see below for subscription instructions) or check out the Web page at www.apricot.net.] Hello Everyone, APRICOT III has confirmed some of the Internet's best will be there to teach the APRICOT tutorials. APRICOT's tutorials presents critical Internet operations knowledge that is usually gain through hard knocks and/or word of mouth. If you are wracking your brains trying to find ways to train your staff, APRICOT is the place to send them. Here is an example of what we mean: + If you want to get you systems team trained in ISP UNIX administraters, get the people who have taught many of the best UNIX administrators on the Internet: Barbara Dijker and Evi Nemeth. + If you wish to build a robust DNS system for you customers, get the person who writes bind to teach it: Paul Vixie. + If you really wish to know the realities of routers and switches on the Internet, get Scott Bradner, the man who's tested most of them in his lab to walk you through it. APRICOT's philosophy is to go to the source of knowledge. Get the best to teach the best ISP Engineers, business managers, and policy makers in the region. Here's a full breakdown of the tutorials as they stand now. Sign up fast. Many of these tutorials fill up quickly. APRICOT III Tutorials --------------------- Internet Security Barbara Fraser DNS and BIND Operations The Domain Name System Paul Vixie Internet Protocol Version 6 Scott Bradner IP and ATM Paul Mockapetris Introduction to Internet Routing Hugh Irvine APNIC Policies and Procedures David Conrad Unix Power Tools I Evi Nemeth Dialup Technologies and Strategies Bob Berger Sendmail Eric Allman System Administration for ISPs Barbara Dijker Combating SPAM (in Mail and Usenet) Paul Vixie WWW Caching and Web Server Techniques Steward Forster Advanced Internet Routing Arpakorn Boonkongchuen Switches and Routers Scott Bradner Internet Regulation and Policy Laina Raveendran Greene Promoting Routability Anne Lord Internet QoS & Traffic Management Paul Ferguson Geoff Huston Unix Power Tools II Evi Nemeth Advanced Perl Programming Barbara Dijker For More Information - Watch http://www.apricot.net for upcoming final program and registration information OR subscribe to the APRICOT mailing list by sending a message to apricot-info-request@apricot.net with the work "subscribe" in the body OR send a message to APRICIOT Organizational Committee apricot-oc@apricot.net OR call APNIC +81 3 5500-0480 OR Fax APNIC at +81 3 5500-0481 -- -- -- Barry Raveendran Greene APRICOT Organization Committee ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ PGP Public Key is registered at http://pgp5.ai.mit.edu/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-apple Mon Dec 22 19:40:01 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id TAA29845 for apple-outgoing; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 19:40:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from geocities.com (mail4.geocities.com [209.1.224.24]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id TAA29839 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 19:39:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from yapcs-r2 (yapcs-r2.iscs.nus.sg [137.132.85.230]) by geocities.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA12117; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 02:42:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <349E439D.5E35BC05@geocities.com> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 18:40:29 +0800 From: "Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim" Organization: VLSM-TJT X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.30 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: MILIS APPLE Subject: IDNIC says **NO** to APJII Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk FYI: IDNIC (http://www.idnic.net.id) has refused APJII's (the Indonesian Internet Provider Cartel - http://www.apjii.or.id) order to delete APJII's "rival" resource record, i.e. "ibm.net.id" from zone "net.id". IDNIC is currently in charge for maintaining second level domains of "ac.id" (Academic), "co.id" (Commercial), "mil.id" (Military), "net.id" (Networking), and "or.id" (Others). Dr. Budi Rahardjo (http://indonesia.elga.net.id) is now heading the current IDNIC task-force which is based on the genre of 30 September 1997 (http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/6825/imho-i-g30s.html). APJII is very well known for its notorious, shameless, and unbelievable behavior including memberships' forgery (http://www.apjii.or.id/organisasi.htm), claiming to be IDNIC (http://www.apjii.or.id/idnic.htm) as well as pretending to be a formal registry institution (http://www.apjii.or.id). The message to APJII is loud and clear: IDNIC does not need APJII's CISCO router, APJII's Sun and Microsoft's server, and APJII's APNIC IP addresses. A formal divorce between APJII and IDNIC is said to be settled this week. IDNIC will use a new logo, and its new web prototype can be visited at http://gnl.simplenet.com/idnic/ PS: - there is no relation between VLSM-TJT and IDNIC. - it is said (rumors), that the current TLD-ID admin contact is on the way to resign anyway ... :-) -- Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim - CEO VLSM-TJT - http://www.vlsm.org/rms46 -- It's new? Novel? Different? Great! Does it work? - J Mansfield - ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-apple Tue Dec 23 04:33:44 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id EAA03303 for apple-outgoing; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 04:33:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from scils.rutgers.edu (scils.rutgers.edu [128.6.160.78]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with SMTP id EAA03298 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 04:33:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from mueller.rutgers.edu (mueller.rutgers.edu [128.6.160.98]) by scils.rutgers.edu (8.6.12+bestmx+oldruq+newsunq/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA04506 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:33:00 -0500 Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:33:00 -0500 Message-Id: <199712221933.OAA04506@scils.rutgers.edu> X-Sender: milton@scils.rutgers.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: apple@apnic.net From: milton@scils.rutgers.edu (Milton Mueller) Subject: address change Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk As of January 5, I am leaving Rutgers University to take a new position as Director of the Graduate Program in Telecommunications and Network Management at the Syracuse University School of Information Studies. Address information: Milton Mueller, Associate Professor School of Information Studies Syracuse University 4-285 Center for Science and Technology Syracuse, NY 13244 tel +1-315-443-5616 email (after Jan 5) milton@syr.edu Cheers! --MM ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-apple Tue Dec 23 14:08:34 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id OAA07542 for apple-outgoing; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:08:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from zinc.singnet.com.sg (zinc.singnet.com.sg [165.21.7.31]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id OAA07537 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:08:28 +0900 (JST) From: laina@singnet.com.sg Received: from isjfvzjl (sj-dial-3-21.cisco.com [171.68.179.22]) by zinc.singnet.com.sg (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA24664 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 13:11:31 +0800 (SGT) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 97 13:00:00 Subject: Seasons Greetings To: apple@apnic.net X-PRIORITY: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: Chameleon 5.0, TCP/IP for Windows, NetManage Inc. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Happy Hanukkah, Blessed Christmas and a Merry New Year to all subscribers of APPLe. May this season bring your loved ones near to you and help remind us all of the REAL value of life. Sincerest regards, Laina Raveendran Greene Chair, APPLe Managing Director, GetIT Pte Ltd ------------------------------------- Name: Laina Raveendran Greene E-mail: laina@singnet.com.sg Date: 12/23/97 Time: 1:00:00 PM This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-apple Fri Dec 26 14:56:13 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) id OAA01450 for apple-outgoing; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 14:56:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from moedprs.edu.tw (moedprs.edu.tw [140.111.2.62]) by teckla.apnic.net (8.8.6/8.7.1) with SMTP id OAA01443 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 14:55:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by moedprs.edu.tw (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA23049; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 13:50:01 -1600 Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 13:50:01 -1600 From: alwu@moedprs.edu.tw (§d­«#()) Message-Id: <9712260550.AA23049@moedprs.edu.tw> To: apple@apnic.net, laina@singnet.com.sg Subject: Re: Seasons Greetings Sender: owner-apple@apnic.net Precedence: bulk Dear Laina: Thank you for your X'mas card which I received today. Wish you have a wounderful holiday season with Barry and your kids. Thanks again. alwu@moers4.edu.tw ___________________________________________________________________________ | To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to apple-request@apnic.net | | Submissions only allowed from the email address you are subscribed with | --------------------------------------------------------------------------