From owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net Thu Aug 2 12:18:43 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois1.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA108695; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 12:18:43 +1000 (EST) Received: from mx1.nic.ad.jp (mx1.nic.ad.jp [202.12.30.137]) by whois1.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA108669 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 12:18:35 +1000 (EST) Received: from spool.nic.ad.jp ([192.168.10.252]) by mx1.nic.ad.jp (8.9.3+3.1W/3.7W/JPNIC-relay.def,v-01052515) with ESMTP id LAA08436 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:18:33 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from izumi@nic.ad.jp) Received: from ws122.nic.ad.jp (ws122.nic.ad.jp [202.12.30.122]) by spool.nic.ad.jp (8.9.3+3.1W/3.7W/JPNIC-spool.def,v-1.13-2001052515) with ESMTP id LAA26913 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:18:32 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from izumi@nic.ad.jp) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ws122.nic.ad.jp (8.8.8+Sun/3.7W/JPNIC-v7-private-nospool.def,v-99091722) with ESMTP id LAA26971 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:18:32 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from izumi@nic.ad.jp) To: nir-discuss@apnic.net Subject: A request for presentation:change in JPNIC fee structure X-Mailer: Mew version 1.93 on Emacs 19.34 / Mule 2.3 (SUETSUMUHANA) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010802111810M.izumi@nic.ad.jp> Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 11:18:10 +0900 From: Izumi Okutani X-Dispatcher: imput version 990905(IM130) Lines: 20 Sender: owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Dear all, Hi, this is Izumi from JPNIC. As some of you may already know, JPNIC has seperated domain and IP address fee structure from April 2001. A JPNIC IP Member is now charged for "per assignment request fee" and "annual maintenance fee for allocated block". If there is still room for it, we would like to make a presentation at the coming NIR meeting. Maemura-san, would it be possible to give us 10-15 minutes for the presentation? Please let me know if I should provide more information for consideration. Regards, Izumi From owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net Fri Aug 3 13:34:35 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois1.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA74640; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 13:34:35 +1000 (EST) Received: from jerry.maem.org (jerry.gip.ad.jp [202.216.40.16]) by whois1.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA74615 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 13:34:32 +1000 (EST) Received: from maita (jerry.maem.org [202.216.40.16]) by jerry.maem.org (8.11.3/8.11.3-maem20010706b) with ESMTP id f733ZGR54191; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 12:35:16 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from maem@maem.org) To: izumi@nic.ad.jp Cc: nir-discuss@apnic.net Subject: Re: A request for presentation:change in JPNIC fee structure From: MAEMURA Akinori References: <20010802111810M.izumi@nic.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <20010802111810M.izumi@nic.ad.jp> Message-Id: <200108031229.EHG00647.BFNN@maem.org> X-Mailer: Winbiff [Version 2.33PL2] X-Accept-Language: ja,en Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 12:29:37 +0900 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Izumi, Sure. I believe this topic is what everyone wants to hear. Everyone, Please advise the presenter what you want for this presentation or simply what you want to know. Regards, Akinori In message <20010802111810M.izumi@nic.ad.jp> "A request for presentation:change in JPNIC fee structure" "Izumi Okutani " wrote: | Dear all, | | Hi, this is Izumi from JPNIC. | | As some of you may already know, JPNIC has seperated domain and IP | address fee structure from April 2001. A JPNIC IP Member is now | charged for "per assignment request fee" and "annual maintenance fee | for allocated block". If there is still room for it, we would like to | make a presentation at the coming NIR meeting. | | Maemura-san, would it be possible to give us 10-15 minutes for the | presentation? | | Please let me know if I should provide more information for | consideration. | | | Regards, | | Izumi From owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net Fri Aug 3 14:01:37 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois1.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA78626; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:01:36 +1000 (EST) Received: from guardian.apnic.net (guardian.apnic.net [203.37.255.100]) by whois1.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA78621 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:01:34 +1000 (EST) Received: (from mail@localhost) by guardian.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA03014 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:01:31 +1000 (EST) Received: from hadrian.staff.apnic.net(192.168.1.1) by int-gw.staff.apnic.net via smap (V2.1) id xmaa02998; Fri, 3 Aug 01 14:01:17 +1000 Received: from wilson (wilson.staff.apnic.net [192.168.1.36]) by hadrian.staff.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA18696; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:01:16 +1000 (EST) From: "Paul Wilson" To: "MAEMURA Akinori" Cc: Subject: RE: A request for presentation:change in JPNIC fee structure Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:01:15 +1000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <200108031229.EHG00647.BFNN@maem.org> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Dear Akinori, Did you pass the membership structure document on to the nir-discuss list? I didn't see it there yet. I'll send you another copy in case you don't have that. Thanks, and looking forward to seeing you in Taipei! Paul. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net > [mailto:owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net]On Behalf Of MAEMURA Akinori > Sent: Friday, 3 August 2001 13:30 > To: izumi@nic.ad.jp > Cc: nir-discuss@apnic.net > Subject: Re: A request for presentation:change in JPNIC fee structure > > > Izumi, > > Sure. I believe this topic is what everyone wants to hear. > > > Everyone, > > Please advise the presenter what you want for this > presentation or simply what you want to know. > > > Regards, > Akinori > > In message <20010802111810M.izumi@nic.ad.jp> > "A request for presentation:change in JPNIC fee structure" > "Izumi Okutani " wrote: > > | Dear all, > | > | Hi, this is Izumi from JPNIC. > | > | As some of you may already know, JPNIC has seperated domain and IP > | address fee structure from April 2001. A JPNIC IP Member is now > | charged for "per assignment request fee" and "annual maintenance fee > | for allocated block". If there is still room for it, we would like to > | make a presentation at the coming NIR meeting. > | > | Maemura-san, would it be possible to give us 10-15 minutes for the > | presentation? > | > | Please let me know if I should provide more information for > | consideration. > | > | > | Regards, > | > | Izumi > From owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net Fri Aug 3 14:11:22 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois1.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA80011; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:11:21 +1000 (EST) Received: from guardian.apnic.net (guardian.apnic.net [203.37.255.100]) by whois1.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA80007 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:11:21 +1000 (EST) Received: (from mail@localhost) by guardian.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA03616 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:11:16 +1000 (EST) Received: from hadrian.staff.apnic.net(192.168.1.1) by int-gw.staff.apnic.net via smap (V2.1) id xmaa03552; Fri, 3 Aug 01 14:10:52 +1000 Received: from wilson (wilson.staff.apnic.net [192.168.1.36]) by hadrian.staff.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA19319; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:10:52 +1000 (EST) From: "Paul Wilson" To: "MAEMURA Akinori" Cc: Subject: RE: A request for presentation:change in JPNIC fee structure Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:10:52 +1000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <200108031229.EHG00647.BFNN@maem.org> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Dear all, A proposal for a revision to the APNIC membership structure will be discussed in Taipei. It is available on the APNIC website, on the draft documents page at http://www.apnic.net/drafts/ see: http://www.apnic.net/drafts/proposal-memb-struct.html The proposal introduces 3 new membership categories, for "associate" and "very small" members, and also for "extra large" members. Note that there is a reduction in confederation per-address fees for the extra large members, which will compensate for an increased annual fee. Also, the "associate" category will provide access to APNIC membership for organisations which hold no IP addresses, including the member ISPs of NIRs. If you have any comments or questions, please do raise those on this list. I look forward to seeing you all in Taipei! Paul. ______________________________________________________________________ Paul Wilson, Director-General, APNIC http://www.apnic.net ph/fx +61 7 3367 0490/82 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net > [mailto:owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net]On Behalf Of MAEMURA Akinori > Sent: Friday, 3 August 2001 13:30 > To: izumi@nic.ad.jp > Cc: nir-discuss@apnic.net > Subject: Re: A request for presentation:change in JPNIC fee structure > > > Izumi, > > Sure. I believe this topic is what everyone wants to hear. > > > Everyone, > > Please advise the presenter what you want for this > presentation or simply what you want to know. > > > Regards, > Akinori > > In message <20010802111810M.izumi@nic.ad.jp> > "A request for presentation:change in JPNIC fee structure" > "Izumi Okutani " wrote: > > | Dear all, > | > | Hi, this is Izumi from JPNIC. > | > | As some of you may already know, JPNIC has seperated domain and IP > | address fee structure from April 2001. A JPNIC IP Member is now > | charged for "per assignment request fee" and "annual maintenance fee > | for allocated block". If there is still room for it, we would like to > | make a presentation at the coming NIR meeting. > | > | Maemura-san, would it be possible to give us 10-15 minutes for the > | presentation? > | > | Please let me know if I should provide more information for > | consideration. > | > | > | Regards, > | > | Izumi > From owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net Sun Aug 5 17:47:53 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois1.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA109996; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 17:47:53 +1000 (EST) Received: from jerry.maem.org (jerry.gip.ad.jp [202.216.40.16]) by whois1.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA109964; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 17:47:42 +1000 (EST) Received: from tanqueray (kiwi.gip.ad.jp [202.216.40.14]) by jerry.maem.org (8.11.3/8.11.3-maem20010706b) with ESMTP id f757mYR61006; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 16:48:35 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from maem@maem.org) To: pwilson@apnic.net Cc: nir-discuss@apnic.net Subject: Re: A request for presentation:change in JPNIC fee structure From: MAEMURA Akinori References: <200108031229.EHG00647.BFNN@maem.org> In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <200108051647.ECI55181.NNBF@maem.org> X-Mailer: Winbiff [Version 2.33PL2] X-Accept-Language: ja,en Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 16:47:11 +0900 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Paul, Thank you for this announce while I should have done it. Everyone, This proposal will make a significant fee change especially for NIRs. Please present your opinions and positions to make the proposal better (if needed). Regards, MAEMURA Akinori In message "RE: A request for presentation:change in JPNIC fee structure" ""Paul Wilson" " wrote: :|Dear all, :| :|A proposal for a revision to the APNIC membership structure will be :|discussed in Taipei. :| :|It is available on the APNIC website, on the draft documents page at :|http://www.apnic.net/drafts/ :| :|see: http://www.apnic.net/drafts/proposal-memb-struct.html :| :| :|The proposal introduces 3 new membership categories, for "associate" and :|"very small" members, and also for "extra large" members. Note that there :|is a reduction in confederation per-address fees for the extra large :|members, which will compensate for an increased annual fee. Also, the :|"associate" category will provide access to APNIC membership for :|organisations which hold no IP addresses, including the member ISPs of NIRs. :| :|If you have any comments or questions, please do raise those on this list. :| :|I look forward to seeing you all in Taipei! :| :|Paul. :| :| :|______________________________________________________________________ :|Paul Wilson, Director-General, APNIC :|http://www.apnic.net ph/fx +61 7 3367 0490/82 :| :| :|> -----Original Message----- :|> From: owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net :|> [mailto:owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net]On Behalf Of MAEMURA Akinori :|> Sent: Friday, 3 August 2001 13:30 :|> To: izumi@nic.ad.jp :|> Cc: nir-discuss@apnic.net :|> Subject: Re: A request for presentation:change in JPNIC fee structure :|> :|> :|> Izumi, :|> :|> Sure. I believe this topic is what everyone wants to hear. :|> :|> :|> Everyone, :|> :|> Please advise the presenter what you want for this :|> presentation or simply what you want to know. :|> :|> :|> Regards, :|> Akinori :|> :|> In message <20010802111810M.izumi@nic.ad.jp> :|> "A request for presentation:change in JPNIC fee structure" :|> "Izumi Okutani " wrote: :|> :|> | Dear all, :|> | :|> | Hi, this is Izumi from JPNIC. :|> | :|> | As some of you may already know, JPNIC has seperated domain and IP :|> | address fee structure from April 2001. A JPNIC IP Member is now :|> | charged for "per assignment request fee" and "annual maintenance fee :|> | for allocated block". If there is still room for it, we would like to :|> | make a presentation at the coming NIR meeting. :|> | :|> | Maemura-san, would it be possible to give us 10-15 minutes for the :|> | presentation? :|> | :|> | Please let me know if I should provide more information for :|> | consideration. :|> | :|> | :|> | Regards, :|> | :|> | Izumi :|> :| From owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net Fri Aug 10 01:27:38 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois1.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA107137; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 01:27:38 +1000 (EST) Received: from guardian.apnic.net (guardian.apnic.net [203.37.255.100]) by whois1.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA107130 for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 01:27:37 +1000 (EST) Received: (from mail@localhost) by guardian.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA19102 for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 01:27:33 +1000 (EST) Received: from hadrian.staff.apnic.net(192.168.1.1) by int-gw.staff.apnic.net via smap (V2.1) id xma019094; Fri, 10 Aug 01 01:27:18 +1000 Received: from co3032500b (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hadrian.staff.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA25941 for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 01:27:17 +1000 (EST) From: "Paul Wilson" To: Subject: RE: A request for presentation:change in JPNIC fee structure Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 01:27:27 +1000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2479.0006 In-Reply-To: <200108051647.ECI55181.NNBF@maem.org> Sender: owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Dear NIT colleagures and others, I hope that there can be some discussion of the proposal on this list prior to the APNIC open policy meeting, or at the NIR meeting prior to the APNIC member meeting on friday 31 august. I should mention that there is no change for small, medium or large APNIC members. For very large members, some would be shifted into the "extra large" category, with a higher annual fee. However, for extra large members which are confederations (including NIRs), the per-address fee is proposed to be lower, which will result in a substantial savings. Regards, Paul Wilson. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net > [mailto:owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net]On Behalf Of MAEMURA Akinori > Sent: Sunday, 5 August 2001 5:47 PM > To: pwilson@apnic.net > Cc: nir-discuss@apnic.net > Subject: Re: A request for presentation:change in JPNIC fee structure > > > Paul, > > Thank you for this announce while I should have done it. > > Everyone, > > This proposal will make a significant fee change > especially for NIRs. Please present your opinions and > positions to make the proposal better (if needed). > > Regards, > MAEMURA Akinori > > > In message > "RE: A request for presentation:change in JPNIC fee structure" > ""Paul Wilson" " wrote: > > :|Dear all, > :| > :|A proposal for a revision to the APNIC membership structure will be > :|discussed in Taipei. > :| > :|It is available on the APNIC website, on the draft documents page at > :|http://www.apnic.net/drafts/ > :| > :|see: http://www.apnic.net/drafts/proposal-memb-struct.html > :| > :| > :|The proposal introduces 3 new membership categories, for "associate" and > :|"very small" members, and also for "extra large" members. Note > that there > :|is a reduction in confederation per-address fees for the extra large > :|members, which will compensate for an increased annual fee. Also, the > :|"associate" category will provide access to APNIC membership for > :|organisations which hold no IP addresses, including the member > ISPs of NIRs. > :| > :|If you have any comments or questions, please do raise those on > this list. > :| > :|I look forward to seeing you all in Taipei! > :| > :|Paul. > :| > :| > :|______________________________________________________________________ > :|Paul Wilson, Director-General, APNIC > :|http://www.apnic.net ph/fx +61 7 3367 0490/82 > :| > :| > :|> -----Original Message----- > :|> From: owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net > :|> [mailto:owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net]On Behalf Of MAEMURA Akinori > :|> Sent: Friday, 3 August 2001 13:30 > :|> To: izumi@nic.ad.jp > :|> Cc: nir-discuss@apnic.net > :|> Subject: Re: A request for presentation:change in JPNIC fee structure > :|> > :|> > :|> Izumi, > :|> > :|> Sure. I believe this topic is what everyone wants to hear. > :|> > :|> > :|> Everyone, > :|> > :|> Please advise the presenter what you want for this > :|> presentation or simply what you want to know. > :|> > :|> > :|> Regards, > :|> Akinori > :|> > :|> In message <20010802111810M.izumi@nic.ad.jp> > :|> "A request for presentation:change in JPNIC fee structure" > :|> "Izumi Okutani " wrote: > :|> > :|> | Dear all, > :|> | > :|> | Hi, this is Izumi from JPNIC. > :|> | > :|> | As some of you may already know, JPNIC has seperated domain and IP > :|> | address fee structure from April 2001. A JPNIC IP Member is now > :|> | charged for "per assignment request fee" and "annual maintenance fee > :|> | for allocated block". If there is still room for it, we > would like to > :|> | make a presentation at the coming NIR meeting. > :|> | > :|> | Maemura-san, would it be possible to give us 10-15 minutes for the > :|> | presentation? > :|> | > :|> | Please let me know if I should provide more information for > :|> | consideration. > :|> | > :|> | > :|> | Regards, > :|> | > :|> | Izumi > :|> > :| > From owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net Fri Aug 10 15:35:20 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois1.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA98675; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:35:20 +1000 (EST) Received: from twnic.net.tw (twnic.net.tw [211.72.210.250]) by whois1.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA98670 for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:35:18 +1000 (EST) Received: from chianan (pc184.twnic.net.tw [211.72.211.184]) by twnic.net.tw (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA19522 for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:38:04 +0800 From: "Chia-Nan Hsieh" To: Subject: RE: A request for presentation:change in JPNIC fee structure Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:50:04 +0800 Message-ID: <001e01c12160$4e06f3a0$b8d348d3@dns.twnic.net.tw> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 In-Reply-To: Disposition-Notification-To: "Chia-Nan Hsieh" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by whois1.apnic.net id PAA98671 Sender: owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Dear Paul and others, TWNIC IP department had a discussion on the new member fee proposal earlier. Generally we think it is necessary to revise the fee structure at this point in order to reflect the change of Internet society. There were two questions raised during our discussion. Q1. Section 3.2 describes the reason of introducing the vsmall membership category. We think it is a good idea to offer a new member type with reasonable fee structure for lagacy address space holder. However, we are concerning the increase of gloabal routing table size if a substantial number of small ISPs acquire IP addresses from APNIC instead of from possible upstream ISPs. Will APNIC approve any new membership applications to this vsmall category? Q2. The votes and annual fee for the three new categories are increased by twice or decreased by half based on the existing categories. But the per address fee for each category does not seem to follow any rule. We are wondering how these numbers (per address fee) were generated? Regards, IP Department TWNIC -----Original Message----- From: owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net [mailto:owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net]On Behalf Of Paul Wilson Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 11:27 PM To: nir-discuss@apnic.net Subject: RE: A request for presentation:change in JPNIC fee structure Dear NIT colleagures and others, I hope that there can be some discussion of the proposal on this list prior to the APNIC open policy meeting, or at the NIR meeting prior to the APNIC member meeting on friday 31 august. I should mention that there is no change for small, medium or large APNIC members. For very large members, some would be shifted into the "extra large" category, with a higher annual fee. However, for extra large members which are confederations (including NIRs), the per-address fee is proposed to be lower, which will result in a substantial savings. Regards, Paul Wilson. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net > [mailto:owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net]On Behalf Of MAEMURA Akinori > Sent: Sunday, 5 August 2001 5:47 PM > To: pwilson@apnic.net > Cc: nir-discuss@apnic.net > Subject: Re: A request for presentation:change in JPNIC fee structure > > > Paul, > > Thank you for this announce while I should have done it. > > Everyone, > > This proposal will make a significant fee change > especially for NIRs. Please present your opinions and > positions to make the proposal better (if needed). > > Regards, > MAEMURA Akinori > > > In message > "RE: A request for presentation:change in JPNIC fee structure" > ""Paul Wilson" " wrote: > > :|Dear all, > :| > :|A proposal for a revision to the APNIC membership structure will be > :|discussed in Taipei. > :| > :|It is available on the APNIC website, on the draft documents page at > :|http://www.apnic.net/drafts/ > :| > :|see: http://www.apnic.net/drafts/proposal-memb-struct.html > :| > :| > :|The proposal introduces 3 new membership categories, for "associate" and > :|"very small" members, and also for "extra large" members. Note > that there > :|is a reduction in confederation per-address fees for the extra large > :|members, which will compensate for an increased annual fee. Also, the > :|"associate" category will provide access to APNIC membership for > :|organisations which hold no IP addresses, including the member > ISPs of NIRs. > :| > :|If you have any comments or questions, please do raise those on > this list. > :| > :|I look forward to seeing you all in Taipei! > :| > :|Paul. > :| > :| > :|______________________________________________________________________ > :|Paul Wilson, Director-General, APNIC > :|http://www.apnic.net ph/fx +61 7 3367 0490/82 > :| > :| > :|> -----Original Message----- > :|> From: owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net > :|> [mailto:owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net]On Behalf Of MAEMURA Akinori > :|> Sent: Friday, 3 August 2001 13:30 > :|> To: izumi@nic.ad.jp > :|> Cc: nir-discuss@apnic.net > :|> Subject: Re: A request for presentation:change in JPNIC fee structure > :|> > :|> > :|> Izumi, > :|> > :|> Sure. I believe this topic is what everyone wants to hear. > :|> > :|> > :|> Everyone, > :|> > :|> Please advise the presenter what you want for this > :|> presentation or simply what you want to know. > :|> > :|> > :|> Regards, > :|> Akinori > :|> > :|> In message <20010802111810M.izumi@nic.ad.jp> > :|> "A request for presentation:change in JPNIC fee structure" > :|> "Izumi Okutani " wrote: > :|> > :|> | Dear all, > :|> | > :|> | Hi, this is Izumi from JPNIC. > :|> | > :|> | As some of you may already know, JPNIC has seperated domain and IP > :|> | address fee structure from April 2001. A JPNIC IP Member is now > :|> | charged for "per assignment request fee" and "annual maintenance fee > :|> | for allocated block". If there is still room for it, we > would like to > :|> | make a presentation at the coming NIR meeting. > :|> | > :|> | Maemura-san, would it be possible to give us 10-15 minutes for the > :|> | presentation? > :|> | > :|> | Please let me know if I should provide more information for > :|> | consideration. > :|> | > :|> | > :|> | Regards, > :|> | > :|> | Izumi > :|> > :| > From owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net Mon Aug 13 18:34:14 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by whois3.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA28017; Mon, 13 Aug 2001 18:34:14 +1000 (EST) Received: from guardian.apnic.net (guardian.apnic.net [203.37.255.100]) by whois3.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28013 for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2001 18:34:13 +1000 (EST) Received: (from mail@localhost) by guardian.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA04141 for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2001 18:34:11 +1000 (EST) Received: from hadrian.staff.apnic.net(192.168.1.1) by int-gw.staff.apnic.net via smap (V2.1) id xmaa04129; Mon, 13 Aug 01 18:33:53 +1000 Received: from wilson (wilson.staff.apnic.net [192.168.1.36]) by hadrian.staff.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05320; Mon, 13 Aug 2001 18:33:50 +1000 (EST) From: "Paul Wilson" To: "'Chia-Nan Hsieh'" , Subject: RE: A request for presentation:change in JPNIC fee structure Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 18:33:43 +1000 Organization: APNIC Message-ID: <009a01c123d2$a9f2cad0$2401a8c0@staff.apnic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <001e01c12160$4e06f3a0$b8d348d3@dns.twnic.net.tw> Sender: owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net Precedence: bulk Dear Colleagues, Thanks for your consideration and questions regarding the new fee structure proposal. > Q1. > Section 3.2 describes the reason of introducing the vsmall > membership category. > We think it is a good idea to offer a new member type with > reasonable fee structure for lagacy address space holder. > However, we are concerning the increase of gloabal routing > table size if a substantial number of small ISPs acquire IP > addresses from APNIC instead of from possible upstream ISPs. > Will APNIC approve any new membership applications to this > vsmall category? Please do note that this proposal affects only APNIC's membership structure and fees, and will have no effect on address management policies. Therefore it could not result in any additional small allocations, and could not have any effect on the global routing tables. On the other hand, there are many organisations which already have small blocks of address space, and who may choose to join APNIC at a reasonable fee level. This also would have no impact on address management or routing tables, as the address space is already allocated. The intention of the proposal is simply to accommodate such organisations, and allow APNIC to represent their interests fairly. At the coming meeting, there will be some proposals made by various people which *may* allow certain small allocations under some circumstances. This fee structure proposal could apply to these cases, but only if those new policies are approved by the APNIC community. > Q2. > The votes and annual fee for the three new categories are > increased by twice or decreased by half based on the existing > categories. But the per address fee for each category does > not seem to follow any rule. We are wondering how these > numbers (per address fee) were generated? Of course, the other element of the APNIC membership structure which does not change by a factor of 2 is the address space holdings related to each category. In this case there is a factor of 8 between successive categories, and a factor of 512 between small and very-large (that is, 8^3). I believe it is quite deliberate that the per-address fee reduces by less than 50% with each increasing category, because this is a once-only fee, intended to cover the cost to APNIC of making allocations to confederatioln/nir members. These costs are very substantial, and directly related to the number of addresses being requested. It would be arguable in fact that there should be no difference in per-address fees for different categories, since a /19 allocation costs the same to process whether it is from a small confederation or from a large. However it may also be reasoned that large members will generate more large requests, where there may be a certain economy of scale (but realistically less than 50% frm one category to the next). I hope that this helps. Regards, Paul.